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154 comments on Tuesday Open Thread....

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Don in Colorado on February 22, 2006 - 2:49am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You know, Bob, I'm up here in western Colorado, on an old family ranch, and my chief concern is the four million people in the sprawl zones along the Front Range who might decide all of our apple orchards and cattle pastures might be a good place to hang out if the going gets tough.

Four years ago I read about Bush's new house in Crawford -- state-of-the-art energy-independent, year-round water cisterns, solar-powered, the whole bit.

It confused me at the time; but now I understand. He definitely plans to be part of the wolfpack.

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totoneila on February 22, 2006 - 12:57pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Hello Don,

Thxs for responding.  Good for you, living on a ranch-- you automatically get more eco-support from Nature than 99% of us.  This eco-buffer will be crucial in the years ahead, I hope you have a good hand-pumpable waterwell or stream on your property.

Water skirmishes with shootings were common out west a hundred years ago--legislators and lawyers took over the battle, but Peakoil and Overshoot will bring back the old ways with a vengeance.  Most people have no idea that most water is PUMPED UPHILL [water follows money] to supply their taps, this will end when the energy is gone.  Phx uses an estimated 20% of its total energy for water and sewer systems: CAP water is pumped 1300ft uphill so it will flow in canals to Phx and Tucson.  I tell people to carry a five gallon water jug a couple of miles to get an idea of how much energy is required.

Obviously, water is crucial to Life--WTSHTF all Hell will break loose-- it is a key inflection point for violence to break out.  Google Tanzania, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Sudan to get a future taste of what insufficient water means to people and wildlife. Truly Sad.

Bob Shaw in Phx,Az  Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

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AlanfromBigEasy on February 22, 2006 - 2:13pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Phoenix is an extreme example.  Very few cities depend so heavily on such distant water cources (although Las Vegas is close).  NYC uses water that flows downhill and has water pressure close to sea level by the time it gets there.  New Orleans also runs water downhill from the Mississippi River.

Rural areas & small towns will be hit by the problems of transportation in a less than total collapse society.  In that case (less than total collapse) New Orleans (and St. Louis, Memphis and other river & rail cities) will do well.  We have great rail connections (6 of 7 large North American railroads come to New Orleans), barge connections (Mississippi River & Intracoastal Canal) and  a seaport.  Compact and low oil use by original design.  Nearby seafood and land that could be farmed again.  Sugarcane that can grow without fertilizer, and remnant oil & gas production.

OTOH, living 40 miles from the nearest WalMart & General Supply store can be quite a handicap for many ranchers and farmers with high enough fuel costs.  Supplying electricity , telephone & fuel to dispersed rural communities will become more expensive. Perhaps technology (over the horizon cell phones with semi-broadband internet bandwidth) can solve the telecommunications problem.  Once a month trips to town may become more common.

My impression is that most rural & small town residents live on what my grandfather called "pet farms" and commute long distances to jobs elsewhere.

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totoneila on February 23, 2006 - 1:41pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I agree Phx, Vegas, La, etc are extreme examples.  At crunch time, the milgov will resort to programs as evidenced by this recently released US Army military document 210-35 "Civilian Inmate Labor Program" linked here:

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf

It is amazing the level of disconnect within our society: people live in a Disneyland mindset while the elites are moving full-speed ahead for the coming cull.  It blows my mind that simple denial keeps Dieoff.com from being the numero uno website in the world.

Bob Shaw in Phx,AZ  Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

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154 comments on Tuesday Open Thread....

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