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In the cases of WTC 3, WTC4, WTC6 and WTC 5 enough to bring down PART of the building during the collaps of WTC1 and WTC2. Destroyed later as 'unsalvageable'.
For WTC 7 to be hit, mateiral needed to first go through WTC 6 space, the plaza space and WTC5 to get to WTC7. (Space and buildings in the way tend to limit damage.)
Other buildings, including a hotel, were destroyed by falling debris (at least one was hit by stuff from both collapses);
Destroyed? No. Damamged.
WTC7 was destroyed. Hours later, Reduced to a pile of rubble, in the footprint + 70 foot radius of the building.
why should 7 WTC have been any different?
FEMA suggests a fire caused the building to collapse. A fire accelerated by diesel.
Caused the steel framed building to collapse in under 10 seconds after the mechanicals go from the roof line shots. All done in under a minute.
In its own footprint. (plus 70 foot radius)
Actual behavior of steel framed buildings with fires has historically been differently. (they have remained standing)
Because the FEMA report claims the sequence of the WTC 7 collapse is consistent with an initial failure that occurred internally in the lower floors on the east side of the building. Yet the visual of the collapse is typical of a controlled demolition where you collapse the internal structure 'all at once'.
Perhaps the unfinished report due in 2004^H5^H6 will provide a report which matches the visual evidence and make sense from an engineering POV.
FWIW, there have been close calls with other steel-framed buildings coming near collapse before, and I was reading of the threat of this all the way back in the 1980's. Someone even patented a water-cooled building frame to prevent such events! Needless to say, the WTC buildings did not incorporate any such protective measures and they became the first examples of fires which proceeded all the way to collapse.
"All this was inspired by the principle - which is quite true in itself - that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes."
---Adolf Hitler "Mon Kempf"
Wake up from your slumber my freind...
==AC
To most of us nothing is so invisible as an unpleasant truth. Though it is held before our eyes, pushed under our noses, rammed down our throats- we know it not.
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
http://tinyurl.com/d6knf
http://tinyurl.com/bf2ye
http://tinyurl.com/c5p5k
http://tinyurl.com/a49gs
You better look at some footage of the perfectly symmetrical collapse. Remember most of live in a world where the laws of physics rule.
How did the building fall in 6.6 seconds, just .6 of a second longer than it would take an object dropped from the roof to hit the ground? What happened to the law of conservation of momentum? Was it suspended on 9/11?
Why were there pools of molten metal in basement of all three buildings? Where did the energy come from to melt steel from a "structural failure"? Do hydrocarbon fires now contain enough energy to melt steel and iron? Only on 9/11?
Since when do collapsing structures take the path of MOST residence? Only on 9/11?
FEMA even admits to a LOW probability [an understatement] of fire causing the collapse:
"The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse ["official theory"] remain unknown at this time. Although the total diesel fuel on the premises contained massive potential energy, the best hypothesis [fire/debris-damage-caused collapse] has only a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue. (FEMA, 2002, chapter 5; emphasis added.)"
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
Watch the North tower collapse. Notice how the Antenna starts to collapse before the rest of the building. The center columns of the building just give way.
"One of the people a thorough investigation should question would be demolition expert Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. Speaking of the way the WTC buildings came down, he said in an interview: "If I were to bring the towers down, I would put explosives in the basement to get the weight of the building to help collapse the structure." (Bollyn, 2002; emphasis added.)"
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
The largest crime scene in history and all the ruble is just carted away and sold for scrap before any SERIOUS investigation into the collapse is done. Controlled Demolition was contracted to do the cleanup. What a pity. Good criminals know that you have to ditch the "murder weapon".
It much easier to just deny it all and get back to your peak oil discussions...
==AC
The site won't let me hotlink video.
This is the one you want from the link above:
Videos of Building 7's Collapse
Building 7 collapse mpeg
This 9.6-second video shows the Building 7 collapse from a vantage point only about 1000 feet to the north.
Everyone seems surprised that steel and concrete falls down. What other direction would it go?
That is some really magnificent concrete. Three perfectly symmetrical collapses from fire all on the same day. Shit why does Controlled Demolition, Inc waste their time using costly thermite and semtex to PULL buildings? All they need is a few thousand gallons of kerosene and a match, presto.
Just trust your eyes and not what you were told, grow up.
"One might equate growing up with a mistrust of words. A mature person trusts his eyes more than his ears. Irrationality often manifests itself in upholding the word against the evidence of the eyes. Children, savages and true believers remember far less what they have seen than what they have heard."
Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)
==AC
==AC
ENGINEERS ARE BAFFLED OVER THE COLLAPSE OF 7 WTC
"STEEL MEMBERS HAVE BEEN PARTLY EVAPORATED"
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/29/nyregion/29TOWE.html
New York Times, November 29, 2001
THE SITE
By JAMES GLANZ
Almost lost in the chaos of the collapse of the World Trade Center is a mystery that under normal circumstances would probably have captured the attention of the city and the world. That mystery is the collapse of a nearby 47-story, two-million-square-foot building seven hours after flaming debris from the towers rained down on it, igniting what became an out-of-control fire.
Engineers and other experts, who quickly came to understand how hurtling airplanes and burning jet fuel had helped bring down the main towers, were for weeks still stunned by what had happened to 7 World Trade Center. That building had housed, among other things, the mayor's emergency command bunker. It tumbled to its knees shortly after 5:20 on the ugly evening of Sept. 11.
The building had suffered mightily from the fire that raged in it, and it had been wounded by the flying beams falling off the towers. But experts said no building like it, a modern, steel-reinforced high-rise, had ever collapsed because of an uncontrolled fire, and engineers have been trying to figure out exactly what happened and whether they should be worried about other buildings like it around the country.
As engineers and scientists struggle to explain the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, they have begun considering whether a type of fuel that was inside the building all along created intensely hot fires like those in the towers: diesel fuel, thousands of gallons of it, intended to run electricity generators in a power failure.
One tank holding 6,000 gallons of fuel was in the building to provide power to the command bunker on the 23rd floor. Another set of four tanks holding as much as 36,000 gallons were just below ground on the building's southwest side for generators that served some of the other tenants.
Engineers and other experts have already uncovered evidence at the collapse site suggesting that some type of fuel played a significant role in the building's demise, but they expect to spend months piecing together the picture of what remains a disturbing puzzle.
"Even though Building 7 didn't get much attention in the media immediately, within the structural engineering community, it's considered to be much more important to understand," said William F. Baker, a partner in charge of structural engineering at the architectural firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill. "They say, `We know what happened at 1 and 2, but why did 7 come down?' "
Engineers said that here and across the country, diesel-powered generators are used in buildings like hospitals and trading houses, where avoiding power outages is crucial. Partly for that reason, Jonathan Barnett said, a definitive answer to the question of what happened in 7 World Trade Center is perhaps the most important question facing investigators.
"It's just like when you investigate a plane crash," said Dr. Barnett, a professor of fire protection engineering at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute. "If we find a weakness in the building or a deficiency in the building that causes that collapse, we then want to find that weakness in other buildings and fix it."
In many ways, 7 World Trade Center, built and owned by Silverstein Properties, was structurally similar to its towering cousins across Vesey Street to the south. The weight of the building was supported by a relatively tight cluster of steel columns around the center of each floor and a palisade of columns around the outside, in the building's facade.
Sprayed on the steel, almost like imitation snow in holiday decorations, was a layer of fireproofing material, generally less than an inch thick. Although the fireproofing was intended to withstand ordinary fires for at least two hours, experts said buildings the size of 7 World Trade Center that are treated with such coatings have never collapsed in a fire of any duration.
Most of three other buildings in the complex, 4, 5 and 6 World Trade, stood despite suffering damage of all kinds, including fire.
Still, experts concede, in a hellish day, 7 World Trade might have sustained structural injuries never envisioned in fire codes. That day began with flaming pieces of steel and aluminum and, horribly, human bodies raining around the building.
With the collapse of both towers by 10:30 a.m., larger pieces of the twin towers had smashed parts of 7 World Trade and set whole clusters of floors ablaze. An hour later, the Fire Department was forced to abandon its last efforts to save the building as it burned like a giant torch. It fell in the late afternoon, hampering rescue efforts and hurling its beams into the ground like red-hot spears.
Within the building, the diesel tanks were surrounded by fireproofed enclosures. But some experts said that like the jet fuel in the twin towers, the diesel fuel could have played a role in the collapse of 7 World Trade.
"If the enclosures were damaged, then yes, this would be enough fuel to explain why the building collapsed," Dr. Barnett said.
Dr. Barnett and Mr. Baker are part of an assessment team organized by the American Society of Civil Engineers and the Federal Emergency Management Agency to examine the performance of several buildings during the attacks. If further studies of the debris confirm the findings of extremely high temperature, Dr. Barnett said, "the smoking gun would be the fuel."
Others experts agreed that the diesel fuel could have speeded the collapse, but said the building might have met the same fate simply because of how long it burned.
"The fuel absolutely could be a factor," said Silvian Marcus, executive vice president for the Cantor Seinuk Group and a structural engineer involved in the original design of the building, which was completed in 1987. But he added, "The tanks may have accelerated the collapse, but did not cause the collapse."
Because of those doubts, engineers hold open the possibility that the collapse had other explanations, like damage caused by falling debris or another source of heat.
The fuel tanks were not the only highly flammable materials in the building. But while some engineers have speculated that a high-pressure gas main ruptured and caught fire, there was none in the area, said David Davidowitz, vice president of gas engineering at Consolidated Edison. The building was served only by a four-inch, low-pressure line for the building's cafeteria, Mr. Davidowitz said.
The mayor's command bunker, built in 1998, included electrical generators on the seventh floor, where there was a small fuel tank, said Jerome M. Hauer, director of the mayor's Office of Emergency Management from 1996 to 2000. That tank was fed by a tank containing thousands of gallons of diesel fuel on a lower floor, he said.
Francis E. McCarton, a spokesman for the emergency management office, confirmed that assessment. "We did have a diesel tank in the facility," he said. "Yes, it was used for our generating system."
The manager of the building when it collapsed, Walter Weems, said the larger tank sat on a steel-and-concrete pedestal on the second floor and held 6,000 gallons of diesel fuel. He said an even larger cache, four tanks containing a total of 36,000 gallons of diesel fuel, sat just below ground level in the loading dock near the southwest corner of the building.
"I'm sure that with enough heat it would have burned," Mr. Hauer said of the diesel. "The question is whether the collapse caused the tank to rupture, or whether the material hitting the building caused the tank to rupture and enhance the fire."
Falling debris also caused major structural damage to the building, which soon began burning on multiple floors, said Francis X. Gribbon, a spokesman for the Fire Department. By 11:30 a.m., the fire commander in charge of that area, Assistant Chief Frank Fellini, ordered firefighters away from it for safety reasons.
A combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated in extraordinarily high temperatures, Dr. Barnett said.
END
- 99% of Americans only know of the WTC 1 & 2 collapse, which had a seismic impact on US domestic politics, but know NOTHING, ZERO, NADA of the WTC 7 collapse.
- No knowledge = No politicsl impact
- If there is zero, NADA political impact from the collapse of WTC 7, there is Zero, NADA. zero reason to do anything covert in order to cause the collapse of WTC 7. WHY do something covert that could unravel (with possibly serious impacts, see Watergate burglary) in order to have no impact what-so-ever on US politics ??
STOP WASTING bandwidth here on an irrelevant non-issue !28-45 Salomon Smith Barney (SSB)
26-27 Standard Chartered Bank
25 Inland Revenue Service (IRS)
25 Department of Defense (DOD)
25 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
24 Inland Revenue Service (IRS)
23 Office of Emergency Management (OEM)
22 Federal Home Loan Bank of New York
21 First State Management Group
19-21 ITT Hartford Insurance Group
19 National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC)
18 Equal Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
14-17 Vacant
13 Provident Financial Management
11-13 Securities and Exchange Commission
9-10 US Secret Service
7-8 American Express Bank International
7 OEM generators and day tank
6 Switchgear, storage
5 Switchgear, generators, transformers
4 Upper level of 3rd floor, switchgear
3 Lobby, SSB Conference Center, rentable space, manage
2 Open to first floor lobby, transformer vault upper level, upper level switchgear
1 Lobby, loading docks, existing Con Ed transformer vaults, fuel storage, lower level switchgear
Look at the tenants of WTC 7. The destruction of 7 was not suppose to have an impact on the public it was to destroy evidence of the operation and other sensative information. All they needed was the Hollywood style fireball explosions on 1&2. They never wanted to draw attention to WTC7 because that is the smoking gun of the entire operation and there is no explanation to why it fell except explosives.
"99% of Americans only know of the WTC 1 & 2 collapse"
Why do you think that is you clown?? WTC 7 was the most important collapse that day because it defies logic and deserves intense study but instead nobody knows of it. Our "free press" does an excellent job on twisting reality, your proof of that...
==AC
==Bill
Controlling Interests
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/background/owners.html
Ownership, Control, and Insurance of The World Trade Center
The World Trade Center complex came under the control of a private owner for the first time only in mid-2001, having been built and managed by the Port Authority as a public resource. The complex was leased to a partnership of Silverstein Properties and Westfield America. 1 2 The new controllers acquired a handsome insurance policy for the complex including a clause that would prove extremely valuable: in the event of a terrorist attack, the partnership could collect the insured value of the property, and be released from their obligations under the 99-year lease. 3
Ownership Change
Author Don Paul investigated this and related issues for his 2002 book, which contains the following passage detailing financial aspects and ownership changes of the complex preceding the attack.
On April 26 of 2001 the Board of Commissioners for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey awarded Silverstein Properties and mall-owner Westfield America a 99-year-lease on the following assets: The Twin Towers, World Trade Center Buildings 4 and 5, two 9-story office buildings, and 400,000 square feet of retail space.
The partners' winning bid was $3.2 billion for holdings estimated to be worth more than $8 billion. JP Morgan Chase, a prestigious investment-bank that's the flagship firm of its kind for Rockefeller family interests, advised the Port Authority, another body long influenced by banker and builder David Rockefeller, his age then 85, in the negotiations.
The lead partner and spokesperson for the winning bidders, Larry Silverstein, age 70, already controlled more than 8 million square feet of New York City real estate. WTC 7 and the nearby Equitable Building were prime among these prior holdings. Larry Silverstein also owned Runway 69, a nightclub in Queens that was alleged 9 years ago to be laundering money made through sales of Laotian heroin. 4
end snip
I dunno, the thought of using them on some noisy conspiracy cranks is getting more attractive all the time.
I've already called for the impeachment of the heads of this administration, for deeds and omissions which prove their unfitness for office. I don't need to invent crimes to bolster my case.
Back to square one.
"It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation."
Under the correct conditions anything can happen!!
The fact you continue to post shows that somewhere deep inside you know something isn't right. But you are too afraid to face it.
Wake up!!
==AC
"I've already called for the impeachment of the heads of this administration, for deeds and omissions which prove their unfitness for office. I don't need to invent crimes to bolster my case."
WOW what a risk taker you are...
Of course, accusations of conspiracy are far easier and cheaper to create than actual conspiracies....
If the shoe fits, wear it.
Pour yourself a beer and put on some popcorn and watch the vid below...
==AC
Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change
or
http://tinyurl.com/83bd8