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146 comments on Conservation in the food chain

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Don Sailorman on March 27, 2006 - 12:40am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top
I think home-grown and organic food tastes better than the glop sold in supermarkets. Also, to buy meat as it is ordinarily raised and processed is too disgusting to put into words.

There are plenty of good arguments in favor of eating local foods whenever possible, but for me, I trust my taste buds.

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p on March 27, 2006 - 3:56am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
The sheer satisfaction of growing your own potatoes on a patch of land not larger than 100 m2 is nice too, you know :-)
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Agric on March 27, 2006 - 8:00am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
A bit over a year ago I decided to see if I could be at least 90% self sufficient in vegetables (not counting grains like wheat and rice, pulses) and set a target date of last 1st June as the practical start date. It's been surprisingly easy, I've spent less than £1 per week ($1.75) on vegetables since then, usually on tomatoes or mushrooms.

I rather like the seasonality and look forward to the first parsnips, green beans, lettuce etc. Currently I'm eating: leeks, purple sprouting broccoli (yummy), swede, carrots, parsnips, celery, shallots, tuscan kale, russian red kale, salad onions, garlic, raddichio, jerusalem artichokes, squashes. I don't have a greenhouse, one would increase the variety of vegetables at this time of year. May will probably be the nadir of supply and choice - when the winter veg has run out and the early summer crops are barely starting.

Sadly I am just reaching the end of my stored onions and potatoes (have given too many away, methinks!) - I grew small amounts of 12 different varieties last year and will be planting 20 varieties in a couple of weeks time. It's quite depressing, taste-wise, eating shop bought potatoes again :-(

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Don in Colorado on March 28, 2006 - 3:34am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I tried this too, Agric, and we've still got a lot of potatoes, even though they want to sprout. And we canned 300 pounds of tomatoes.

Since I already live on a small farm, it was pretty easy to eat about 80 percent of our food locally. Especially since we have a herd of delicious Angus cattle.

But we also bought local organic pork, chicken and fish. We have a ranch co-op already in place that sells local meats.

We also have many organic orchards here, so we had lots of apples, apricots, peaches, etc. We also canned a lot of stuff from our big garden. Have you ever tried pickled green beans? Delicious ...

We still have to buy coffee, dairy products (no local dairy) sugar and flour. This year someone is starting a local wheat farm/mill so we can localize that, too.

And of course I still have to buy ice cream ... :-)

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p on March 28, 2006 - 8:53am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Tomatoes and potatoes? Don't you have a late blight problem? What varieties do you grow?

I have: I grow a very early variety that will produce nice excellent tasting tubers but is rather prone to blight (Dore). It will produce before summer though which is the main blight season. I also grow a late variety (Texla) which shows remarkable resitance to late blight. That way I circumvent the blight problem a bit. I hope.

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westexas on March 27, 2006 - 9:14am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
U.S. about to become net food importer
Posted by Ken Meter at 8:23 AM on 10 Feb 2006
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/2/9/211544/4045

The author has some good statistics.  Among them is that California is already a net food importer.   Currently it is cheaper to buy an artichoke from South American than one grown locally in California.  Of course, as energy prices go up, I'm sure that will change.

As I have previously said, I think that one of the best long term investments that we can make is to invest in organic farming--if nothing else, by leasing out the land to an organic farmer.  Short term, the ROI will be poor, but the point is to secure a long term supply of food.  It's a win/win proposition:  you can make money off Peak Oil while making a positive impact on the community (and perhaps providing a job for your unemployed college graduate).  

Another positive move is to sign up for a local food coop program, whereby a group of people make monthly payments to farmers, in exchange for weekly deliveries of produce during the growing season.  

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Leanan on March 27, 2006 - 9:37am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Also, consider joining a CSA (Community Supported Agriculture).  Google CSA and the name of your community, and see if there's a program near you.  Typically, the way these work is members pay a fee, work on the farm a certain number of hours, or both.  They will usually make allowances if you can't afford the fee or are disabled and can't work in the fields.  In exchange, you get a share of the fruits, vegetables, flowers, and herbs produced by the farm.  You go pick it up; often, it's pick-your-own.  

It's a good way to learn farming, if you want to learn but don't have your own land yet.  Also, the surplus goes to local food pantries, so you can help the community while helping yourself.  

I found there is one in walking distance of my home, at a local college.  

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Charles on March 27, 2006 - 5:49pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
http://www.localharvest.org/csa/
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vermont on March 27, 2006 - 3:55pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
For those who are interested in becoming more proficient gardeners (or perhaps, learning the 1st thing about gardening), many states in the US have a Master Gardener Certification program.  The program generally includes about a semester of book learnin' and several hours (40 in Vermont) of community service (farm work, community garden work, tending gardening hot lines, etc.).  Typically it's offered via a University extension program.
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Will on March 27, 2006 - 10:55am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Don,

I wanted to thank you for that mention of Garret Hardin in a recent thread. I had forgotten that seminal article on the commons he wrote in 1968. It is dead-on relevant for this group. Your book suggestion is on order. I think the TOD readership might want to either reacquaint itself with, or become familiar, with this man. He is a giant.

http://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_tragedy_of_the_commons.html

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Don Sailorman on March 27, 2006 - 12:49pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Thanks,
One of these days I'd like to see a thread on the tragedy of the commons, because it is the single most important concept (IMO) prerequisite to understanding how the world has gotten into its present situation, and, again in my opinion, Garrett Hardin presents unique solutions backed up by rigorous science.

The problem, of course, is that facts and scientific interpretation go contrary to what most of us want to believe.

As I have stated before, there are no limits to human self-deception, and unless and until we face up to the tragedy of the commons there can be no hope of a better world.

In the Environmental Economics class I used to teach back in the seventies, I used Hardin's "Exploring New Ethics for Survival: The Voyage of the Spaceship Beagle" and found the freshman students, even the average ones, were able to grasp the material, and some became passionately interested in the environmental movement as a result of studying the book. Truly, it is a life-transforming volume--and the classic essay (included as an Appendix to the book) is the best place to start.

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Yankee on March 27, 2006 - 1:08pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Prof. Goose tackled the tragedy of the commons way back when. Maybe he'll be able to update someday for the new readership.
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Don Sailorman on March 27, 2006 - 2:28pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Thank you. By all means, let Professor Goose (or somebody) do an update.

BTW, Hardin's thinking is consistent with both capitalism and mainstream economic thinking, because he insists that prices should reflect all costs, not just "accounting" or "internal" costs but also external costs as well.

I know of no economist (no matter how disreputable) who claims that "external" costs should not be taken account of in decision-making. The problem comes in how to implement the idea of internalizing external costs, and also how to implement "mutual coercion, mutually agreed upon."

Obviously, markets cannot function where the commons is destroyed--and that applies not only to population increase but to pollution and to overuse of any and all natural resources.

Unfortunately, Hardin's rigorous scientific conclusions are rejected by politically correct Democrats and both religious-right and "free-market-fat-cat" Republicans. That is one reason I seldom vote for either members of either two major parties--because they both fail, and fail equally, to come to grips with the most fundamental problems.

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Will on March 27, 2006 - 6:47pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
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Will on March 27, 2006 - 6:54pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I hope the issue returns to the forum. I just read "Turning Sludge into Gold" behind WSJ's paywall. It's about the tar sand development. It made me wonder what will be expected of us in the U.S. going forward with coal development given what Canada is prepared to do, is doing, to this wilderness.  
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Mad Maxout on March 27, 2006 - 10:33pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Ah, yes, the tragedy of the commons. If I get to try to explain it to eco-newbies, I have a fun thought experiment - which I would love to bring to reality if I ever hit the lotto.

Here it is. You hit the lotto, set up a bank account for your family with exactly one million bucks in it, and it's a joint account. You invite your family to a table and explain that this joint account is to teach them to cooperate. You hand out the VISA Debit cards and have them sign a no-harassment contract.

Each family member will realise that they gain most by draining the account as quickly as possible, so the race is on, once the first makes the move. The end-game occurs when the last bit of money is in the bank and all of them show up at the bank to extract the last bit of money. With family members packing heat, a shooting or two occurs. And everyone who survives is permanently angry at everyone else. Meanwhile, you DID make sure to hide in Ft. McMurray (which they conviently don't know about) so when they waste money looking for you in resort towns in Europe they never find you.

This thought experiment has all the ingredients of a tragedy of the commons. A commons, the joint account, game theory dictating that players maximise gain by draining it despite it being to others' detriment, and selfishness overriding cooperation. We know that married couples have money squabbles any time a joint account exists, like the extreme case above.

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eric blair on March 27, 2006 - 12:05pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Also, to buy meat as it is ordinarily raised and processed is too disgusting to put into words.

But, but...the free market says that is what the consumer wants!

coff  coff

Free Market my !jack male donkey

VIA http://www.pastpeak.com/ I present the free market at work
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/articles_2004/usda_slaughters_creekstone.html
http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow/preventtesting010305.cfm

And that leads to:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.mpl/ap/politics/3743815

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totoneila on March 27, 2006 - 6:29pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Sorry Folks,

BIG TOPIC CHANGE!

Jay Hanson, Reg Morrision, author of "Spirit in the Gene", and ANGRYCHIMP are engaging in a totally mind-stunning debate on instinctive conspiracies & open conspiracies.

If you have not joined the Yahoo forum  DIEOFF_Q&A,  NOW IS THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob Shaw in Phx,AZ  Are Humans SMarter than Yeast?

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