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I'm certainly no expert on food production, but it is my understanding that while organic farming can be more profitable per acre than standard farming (less use of fossil fuels & chemicals), the yield per acre is lower. Therefore, we will need more land, using organic farming, to provide the same amount of food that we do now. This sets up the problem of land used for food versus fuel--both food producers and fuel producers will need more land. Of course, a lot of small "Victory Gardens" will help quite a bit.
It seems to me that we are rapidly approaching a point where most people's primary focus will be on how to pay their food and energy bills. I wonder if the energy riots we have seen on the Indian subcontinent are a sign of things to come worldwide.
In an interview a couple of years ago, Jay Hanson (I checked the link, and it is no longer available), said that most people are getting too hung up on the technical aspects of post-Peak Oil. He said the key problem is how do we control men when there is no economic growth?
I have wondered for some time about Jay's choice of his retreat, the Big Island of Hawaii. I am beginning to wonder if he chose Hawaii because he thinks that the biggest threat we face results from food and energy riots, i.e., the Pacific Ocean is one heck of a big moat. I wonder if the Big Island could technically be food self-sufficient?
Not with its current population.
I cook as a hobby, and I grow food as a hobby, and I study food plants as a hobby. It shocks me that even those that come from low food regions in a few years of the Plenty of the US, adopt the same food habits of the Rest of the Citizens, or more accurately the wasteful folks.
We as Americans waste a lot of Food. We have laws in some cities that state that once its cooked and not eaten by the customer, we have to throw it out. We have "Grand Buffets" where the left over food could feed some families for WEEKS!! It all goes to waste!
So yeah, as the end of our "Easy Eating" Lifestyle comes to and end we will see the end of the Buffets, or at least the end of them as we now know them to be.
Hey I am moving to a small town,, How many buffets are there, I bet not a single one. Gee I wonder why??
I used to volunteer at a soup kitchen, and they received boxes and boxes of donuts that weren't quite fresh enough to meet Dunkin's standards. I wonder how many donuts Dunkin and KK toss every day
- 500 acres produces 7 million pounds of guava
- 2,700 acres produces 36 million pounds of papaya
- less than 400 acres produces over 1 million pounds of taro, a traditional food of Pacific Islanders
This all sounds very productive to me. With over 60,000 acres of agricultural land being recently released from sugar cane production, farming just this land would require supporting about 3 people per acre to be self-sufficient on the Big Island. Statements from John Jeavons indicate that biointensive farming would support over 10 people per acre sustainably."I'm certainly no expert on food production, but it is my understanding that while organic farming can be more profitable per acre than standard farming (less use of fossil fuels & chemicals), the yield per acre is lower."
I'm no expert either. I mentioned a few days ago that I had the pleasure of hosting Joel Salatin last weekend. He is a truely organic beef and poultry farmer in Virginia, not simply "organic" as a marketing ploy as the word has largely become.
He convincingly explained to me his methods that are low input and high yield. He improves his land each year and keeps a larger number of animals on his land than any of his neighbors. The quality of life for his charges is very good as well--all free range, grass fed and "grass finished"--no feed lot time before slaughter. The chickens follow the cattle sequentially on the same pastures, providing a more complex nutrition to the pasture grasses. In his philosophy, the health of the pasture is what comes first and the health of the animals follows from that naturally.
So there is some hope for greater efficiency in organic methods--though it is definitely more labor intensive.
-Matt DC
Meat Consumption and Risk of Colorectal Cancer
Ann Chao, PhD; Michael J. Thun, MD, MS; Cari J. Connell, MPH; Marjorie L. McCullough, ScD; Eric J. Jacobs, PhD; W. Dana Flanders, MD, ScD; Carmen Rodriguez, MD, MPH; Rashmi Sinha, PhD; Eugenia E. Calle, PhD
JAMA. 2005;293:172-182.
full paper is free but requires registration.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/293/2/172
The risks from very modest quantities of red meat can probably be lessened somewhat, but not completely, by a high fiber diet. From PMID 16452248: "In colonic exfoliated cells, the percentage staining positive for the NOC-specific DNA adduct, O(6)-carboxymethyl guanine (O(6)CMG) was significantly (P < 0.001) higher on the high red meat diet. In 13 volunteers, levels were intermediate on the high-fiber, high red meat diet."
It's probably not very healthy for the aquifer, either. Nitrates are usually at unaccpetable levels within several miles of animal farms.
It's not so great for other reasons as well. Land use is greater and irrigation needs are generally greater to much greater than for plant foods.
Locally grown organic legumes are a better bet.
See:
Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2004;13(2):217-20.
Legumes: the most important dietary predictor of survival in older people of different ethnicities.
Darmadi-Blackberry I, Wahlqvist ML, Kouris-Blazos A, Steen B, Lukito W, Horie Y, Horie K.
http://www.healthyeatingclub.com/info/articles/diets-foods/Darmadi.pdf
It's probably not that legumes are all that. But, they have no heme iron, they are generally anticarcinogenic when cooked, they have lots of dietary fiber, and they are completely devoid of oxidized cholesterol.
First lots of water - essentially irrigation to protect against drought, where the water is pumped from underground aquifers.
Secondly fertilizer - generally made from natural gas. Essentially because monocultures tend to strip the nutrients from the soil (called by some mining the soil), so there is this constant need to replenish these nutrients.
Finally pesticides - generally also petrochemicals of one sort or another.
Of these, we have already talked a lot about limitations involving both oil and natural gas, so let me focus on water instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer
Water problems aren't just a problem for agriculture. There was a comment here at TOD about a place in Oklahoma where oil drilling had been suspended - the local town no longer had sufficient quantities of water required to support the drilling.
http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/2/22/122330/042#2
Thank you for bringing up the Peak Aquifer article.
The USA is surrounded on 3 sides by gazillions of gallons of water and yet we threaten to run dry. Needed is a Manhaten Project level desalinazation effort, not just for the sake of US citizens, but for citizens all around the world who are running short of fresh water. Its amazing that MSM has not picked up on any of the Chicken Little warning signs. It will be too late when the sky does fall.
You might see more electric vehicles getting used in agriculture, making a more direct use of that wind.. either that, or that farmers would commit a portion of their cropland for biofuel that would be grown to assist in their own energy needs. If anybody can find a way to improve eroei, I'll bet a farmer can.. the original scientists.
There is an easier way to fix nitrogen in the soil. Some plants do it for you. Soybeans are a noted example.
Actually its the symbotic bacteria 'in the roots' that fix the nitrogen.
If you could convince the bacteria to do this via genetic re-engineering w/o effecting other plant 'features'....
"I assume total food production globally has peaked or will peak very soon."
This is the most perceptive, and most alarming, observation I have read in some time. It condenses and encapsulates most of the biodiesel discussion we've been having, as well as many other threads.
Think about this: roughly half of the nitrogen in human biomass comes directly from the natural gas based fertilizers. As we hit peak gas, we probably hit peak food.
In addition, half of cropland use prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine went to feeding horses and oxen for primary power and transportation. The conversion of this cropland to direct human consumption helped feed the green revolution.
Now it looks like we'll be drifting back to having half our cropland go for transportation; but via biofuels and ethanol.
Thus, we should expect the decline after "peak food" to be quite steep. Very sobering.
Another downside is that 19th century cities had large crews sweeping up horse manure, to be transferred to farmers in surrounding farms, which produced food for the cities. There don't appear to be such manure production possibilities from vehicular transportation.
The figure that sticks in my head is 40% of total nitrogen comes from Nat. Gas; it was in some science mag some time back.
jim
I am trying to get some theoretical numbers behind this concept.
Let's say natural gas peaks in 2010, and declines 2% per year. Let's also assume a 1:1 ratio in food production losses (natural gas provides most of the feedstock for fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides).
That would mean an 18.3% loss by 2020.
Let us then factor in losses from the decline of irrigated fields, orchards and pasturelands, due to the skyrocketing cost of pumping water from declining aquifers. Let us assume 5% off the top.
Let us also assume a 5% off the top loss from the associated effects of peak oil (marginal farmers are driven out of business by skyrocketing costs for transport, fuel for tractors, plastic hoses and drip irrigation lines, etc.)
Now we are running at about 72% (rounded up).
Let us then assume that 10% of the remaining croplands are converted to energy sources (vegetable oils for biodiesel, carbon crops for ethanol, wood for fuel, etc.).
In this model we are down to 62% of present food production by the year 2020.
Please show me how this model is wrong.
-- jim burke
a)natural gas decline will be greater than 2% -it depletes faster than oil
b)there are other ways to generate fertilizer - compost, manure etc - not as good as NG, but can supplement
c) the main thing is that we could grow MORE food if everyone grew a bit of their own (20-30%) that way less fuel would be used to transport food and people could use their own gardens compost to replenish the soil. one acre of permaculture can grow food for alot of people - a different and better model than current large scale ag.
as for b) and c), my wife and I are setting up a permaculture orchard/garden which should sustain us once it's completed, but it is astounding how much work it requires, how much high energy inputs for fencing, irrigation lines, etc. Also, in our town of 6,500, I don't know of anyone else who is trying it.
I've been trying without success to get people to start gardening (most people don't have any idea how to grow veggies -- even WITH rototillers and NG based fertilizers).
So let's say we'll ADD 5% for people growing victory gardens (the same we've subtracted for reduced irrigation farming); how much additional do you think we should subtract for NG depletion?
Rick
Getting hydrogen from coal really means replacing some of the hydrogen in water with carbon. This takes energy and also gives you loads of carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide.