Also I'm not saying that leveling a city in every instance of war is the move to make, but against Islamic Extremists who respect and respond to naked raw power, its something I think needs to be considered.
Well, we've done it before in Dresden and Hiroshima. I didn't approve of those either. I do believe in the protective use of force however. Just not the current administration's interpretation of it.
They know we will play by the rules even if they don't.
Yeah. Like Abu Ghraib. Like Guantanamo. (both violations of the Geneva Convention). Like cluster bombs. Like Falujah. I wish we did play by the rules rather than pretending to.
I'll disagree with you on the use of force on Hiroshima and Dresden, but that is another ball game.
As for Abu Graib, the people who committed those acts are being punished. The system works, and we kept ourselves accountable. If they had been ignored, then I would say the US failed its obligations.
As for Guantanamo, that subject is being hashed out right now in the legislature and courts. Again the system is in the process of working it out. It may be slow, and it may be imperfect but at least we have processes and law that we at least try to follow. I doubt the terrorists give a flying flip about law.
Cluster Bombs, I don't think are illegal. They are disdained and there is now fresh criticism of their use because of the Isreali-Lebanon situation, but technically I don't think any laws broken. If I'm wrong please feel free to point out the section in international law banning their use. I'm always up for learning something new for the day.
Falujah? Please elaborate what greivance you are trying to insinuate here. Preferably back it up with a reference so I can read for myself and come to some conclusions. Falujah is in the news a lot, so just stating the place doesn't specify an incident.
Anyhow I'm off to go chill out for the evening. SQL and the poorly maintained database I was converting has fried me out.
"As for Abu Graib, the people who committed those acts are being punished. The system works, and we kept ourselves accountable. If they had been ignored, then I would say the US failed its obligations."
Oh Really? Care to prove that point.
Other than some low level scapegoats, show us one senior ranking civilian that has been tried and convicted for war crimes relating to AG.
I'm sorry, Prole. The only thing this proves is either your ignorance about Abu Ghraib or overwhelming partisanship. At least that's what I think. If you want to have a start-from-scratch, real debate/conversation about this issue - then please - start right here.
I'll keep it exclusive. Just me and you. If you need some help, I'll let you have Angry Chimp and AlistairC. Trust me, you will need them, they are good. I'll take Jack Greene to fact-check me. Other than that, I think I can prove myself.
Here. Read Bing West's article in latest Altantic Monthly. (C'mon fishies, fall for the bait, fall for the bait).
Fail to prosecute those who made the infractions and we are the worst human rights violators in the world!
Prosecute them, and it turns out that they are just scapegoats for the super secret shadow government!
It would be inconceivable to think that maybe, just maybe, we happened to have a collection of psychotic bored off their ass nitwit MPs who thought it might be fun to put these prisoners through some good old fashion college hazing, and have a real life edition of Jackass using Iraqi prisoners. And by the way before it gets misconstrued, thats not an excuse for their behavior, its an indictment of it, and of the idiocy the American Public has for watching sadistic morons on TV and thinking its "cool".
Do a google search for "Jamestown Kool-Aid Massacre"
See anything familiar? C'mon let's start being friends again. It's so much easier that way. Otherwise, I'll just keep on pretending. I'm serious. Maybe we need Hezbollah to broker the cease fire.
As for Abu Graib, the people who committed those acts are being punished. The system works, and we kept ourselves accountable.
It does not matter what YOU think (we kept ourselves accountable), what matters is what THEY think.
No "mind control" available to you in muslim countries, ol'Rupert doesn't own the MSM over there.
All's fair in war. We're deluding ourselves if we think otherwise.
Before WWII, bombing civilian targets was seen as barbaric. By the end of the war, both sides were doing it. Topped off with our bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Eh? All's fair between me and you. (I think). WWII was a serious proving gound and mental exercise in this respect. WWI really didn't broach the subject.
Korea. Vietnam. Chechnya. Kosovo. Iraq 2003. (and especially) Lebanon 2006. Have really honed our(the world's) thinking on this one.
I guess my point is that "bombing civilian targets" has always been seen as barbaric. Just to what extent? And what does it mean about "us"(again, the world). I think these are more important issues.
What do the Chinese think?
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“Any coward can fight a battle when he's sure of winning, but give me the man who has pluck to fight when he's sure of losing. That's my way, sir; and there are many victories worse than a defeat.”
k Nation (Jim Kunstler)
GAIA Host Collective
Well, we've done it before in Dresden and Hiroshima. I didn't approve of those either. I do believe in the protective use of force however. Just not the current administration's interpretation of it.
They know we will play by the rules even if they don't.
Yeah. Like Abu Ghraib. Like Guantanamo. (both violations of the Geneva Convention). Like cluster bombs. Like Falujah. I wish we did play by the rules rather than pretending to.
As for Abu Graib, the people who committed those acts are being punished. The system works, and we kept ourselves accountable. If they had been ignored, then I would say the US failed its obligations.
As for Guantanamo, that subject is being hashed out right now in the legislature and courts. Again the system is in the process of working it out. It may be slow, and it may be imperfect but at least we have processes and law that we at least try to follow. I doubt the terrorists give a flying flip about law.
Cluster Bombs, I don't think are illegal. They are disdained and there is now fresh criticism of their use because of the Isreali-Lebanon situation, but technically I don't think any laws broken. If I'm wrong please feel free to point out the section in international law banning their use. I'm always up for learning something new for the day.
Falujah? Please elaborate what greivance you are trying to insinuate here. Preferably back it up with a reference so I can read for myself and come to some conclusions. Falujah is in the news a lot, so just stating the place doesn't specify an incident.
Anyhow I'm off to go chill out for the evening. SQL and the poorly maintained database I was converting has fried me out.
Oh Really? Care to prove that point.
Other than some low level scapegoats, show us one senior ranking civilian that has been tried and convicted for war crimes relating to AG.
I'll keep it exclusive. Just me and you. If you need some help, I'll let you have Angry Chimp and AlistairC. Trust me, you will need them, they are good. I'll take Jack Greene to fact-check me. Other than that, I think I can prove myself.
Here. Read Bing West's article in latest Altantic Monthly. (C'mon fishies, fall for the bait, fall for the bait).
Fail to prosecute those who made the infractions and we are the worst human rights violators in the world!
Prosecute them, and it turns out that they are just scapegoats for the super secret shadow government!
It would be inconceivable to think that maybe, just maybe, we happened to have a collection of psychotic bored off their ass nitwit MPs who thought it might be fun to put these prisoners through some good old fashion college hazing, and have a real life edition of Jackass using Iraqi prisoners. And by the way before it gets misconstrued, thats not an excuse for their behavior, its an indictment of it, and of the idiocy the American Public has for watching sadistic morons on TV and thinking its "cool".
Good Lord man, put down the Kool Aid!
See anything familiar? C'mon let's start being friends again. It's so much easier that way. Otherwise, I'll just keep on pretending. I'm serious. Maybe we need Hezbollah to broker the cease fire.
It does not matter what YOU think (we kept ourselves accountable), what matters is what THEY think.
No "mind control" available to you in muslim countries, ol'Rupert doesn't own the MSM over there.
Don't forget to apply for the Nobel Prize!
Before WWII, bombing civilian targets was seen as barbaric. By the end of the war, both sides were doing it. Topped off with our bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Korea. Vietnam. Chechnya. Kosovo. Iraq 2003. (and especially) Lebanon 2006. Have really honed our(the world's) thinking on this one.
I guess my point is that "bombing civilian targets" has always been seen as barbaric. Just to what extent? And what does it mean about "us"(again, the world). I think these are more important issues.
What do the Chinese think?