Leanan wrote:
No, I think if we had lots of oil, water would not be that big a problem.  We could simply build a lot of desalination plants.

Leanan, this might be true in theory, but it is really ridiculous to propose that we could desalinate enough water to replace the water currently used around the world for irrigation. We would need thousands of desal plants. The Yellow river is used, almost entirely for irrigation and for most of the year it never reaches the sea. Imagine building enough desal plants to replace the water in theYellow River. Or the Colorado River, all the hundreds of rivers and aquifers around the world that are going dry because too much water is being pumped out.

The Soviets diverted the rivers feeding the Aral Sea to grow cotton. Now the Aral Sea is almost dry. Do you suppose that if we had enough oil we could just build enough desal plants and fill it up again? And the same for Lake Chad and all the other lakes and rivers of the world that are drying up because of massive irrigation.

I haven't done the math but I would bet that if we wished to replace all the world's irrigation water with desalinated water, we would need at least one hundred times as much oil as we have now.  And imagine what that would do to global warming, burning one hundred times the oil we do now.

Ron Patterson

Leanan:

Try desalinating the Dust Bowl. That should make it clear enough.

Unlimited energy can theoretically solve almost all problems. But one remains: the very use of that energy, and the pollution -or waste- it produces. That could only be solved by using more energy, which would lead to more waste, which could only be solved by using more energy, which... (copy and paste).

Unlimited energy (when used) equals unlimited waste.

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River diversion, that very term brings up China. The most megalomanic project in the history of mankind is underway as we speak, digging 1000's of miles of canals and tunnels to divert water from the relatively wet south to the very dry and desertifying north.

Mao started talking about it 50 years ago, and it will take another 50 to complete.

The South to North China Water Diversion mega-project is the largest of its kind ever planned. In November 2002 the hugely ambitious, multi-billion dollar river diversion plan was given the go-ahead by the Chinese government.

The main aim of the project is to alleviate the water shortage in northern China around Beijing, the Tianjin municipality and Hebei province by diverting water from the south of the country.

The three south-to-north canals, which will stretch across the eastern, middle and western parts of China, will eventually link the country's four major rivers - the Yangtze River, Yellow River, Huaihe River and the Haihe River.

The first and second phases of the east route and the first phase of the middle route will be constructed by 2010. It is hoped that by 2008 enough of the infrastructure will be in place to help Qingdao host the water sports during the 2008 Olympic Games. The total cost of this work is estimated to be more than US$22 billion. Construction of the west route, the largest of the three, will cost US$36 billion.

Planning of the South-to-North Water Diversion Projects started in the 1950s and will take almost 50 years to construct. By 2050 it is expected the project will be capable of shifting 44.8 billion cubic metres of water annually.

One problem that is not part of the planning process: melting glaciers. By the time the project is finished, 50 years from now, there will be hardly any water left, the southern rivers are fed by the Himalaya's.

It'll be a fitting end for Peak Stupidity.


Do you suppose that if we had enough oil we could just build enough desal plants and fill it up again?

In a word...yes.

I'm not saying it would be desirable, mind.

In a word...yes.

Do the math Leanan you might have some surprises.
In other words, though your statement "Given enough energy, we can solve just about any problem" holds in principle, there are HUGE AMOUNTS of "energy equivalent" consumption in many, many natural ressources we squander mindlessly.

Given unlimited (non-carbon emitting) energy, we could just build decarbonation plants for the air. Bury all that CO2, or shoot it into space.
Or leave this planet, and find others to exploit...
One simple solution is stop the madness of watering lawns.

Releasing water on the ground to artifically produce wetlands for waterfowl.

Quit draining wetlands for humans to have more sprawl space and pretend they are living the rural lifestyle.

Stop irrigating crop land when normal rainfall is insufficient and live on what we can actually produce, even though this means a lot of the rest of the world must learn to better shepherd their resources as well, in other words quit trying to be the worlds saviour and just live with what we got.

Turn off the 'green revolution'.

Stop washing streets, let the residents sweep them off.

Ice hockey? Forget it.

Swimming pools in everymans backyard? Ignorant.

Sprinkling desert land in Arizona to grow grass? Fools.

Huge water fountains in Vegas? Screw the gamblers. Let them eat dust.

The list can go on and on and on. Just as long as human stupidity can go on and on and on. Live within the parameters or die off. Thats what it is coming down to.

Why does India need all that water? Could all our ignorant offshoring of our once domestic jobs have anything to do with it?  

Two years ago this would have been utter nonsense. Today I submit it makes sense. You can't legislate people's lifestyle so nature is going to do take over that job for us.