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113 comments on St Louis Renewable Energy Conference - Day 2

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Heading Out on October 13, 2006 - 5:32pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
This was oriented toward supply, rather than conservation, and thus the conservation aspects did not really come up much.  Matt Simmons suggested that we start looking at re-arranging work so that more folk could do it at home, and cut down on the traffic, but other than that I can't immediately remember any other comments.

There was some debate over fuel vs food, the comment that ethanol has overtaken exports carried a comment about the potential problem this raised.  However Monsanto were assuring folk about the increases in yields that they could project, which would resolve that worry.  However since there is some effort to change the optimal parameters of corn to aim them toward better fuel production it may lead to a farmers choice as to which seed he buys, rather than the current decision as to where he sells the results.

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tate423 on October 13, 2006 - 7:17pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I can see it already.  The food crop gets killed from drought so they start staring at the fuel corn and reassuring us, that hey, it's ok to eat after all!  Whether it is or not be damned.

Or even opposite that, the fuel corn doesnt make it so the food corn is used up instead.  Both choices seem plausible.

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jokuhl on October 13, 2006 - 8:47pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Kind of makes me think about our biggest travel day, Thanksgiving.  Do we say our thanks as we start up the cars, just in case the process of getting over the river and through the woods (and off the cliff) leaves less than a feast on the fine china when we get there?  Will there be a there there?

   .. and I just had to bring China into it, didn't I?

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davidsmi on October 13, 2006 - 9:09pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You have me wondering what the plan here is for GMO seeds - do companies gain acceptance of GMO corn by saying its all just for fuel? I know some is already being grown here for feedstock and there are concerns about it cross breeding with crops intended for human consumption.

Anyone read "Oryx and Crake" by Margaret Atwood? <shudder>

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TrueKaiser on October 13, 2006 - 11:14pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
oh don't remind me of the new 'terminator' seed craze all the bio company's are crazy about.
given enough time i am sure of one thing. humans will turn this planet into a semi-lifeless rock(assuming we don't find a way to kill the extremophiles deep in the crust or deep in the ocean while continuing to pleasure ourselves.
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beggar on October 14, 2006 - 6:00pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Yup.

Margaret Atwood's "Oryx and Crake" is a great literary look at the future, complete with walled corporate compounds where employees work, live, and essentially live their lives.  Until it blows apart, shall we say....

Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale" is another superb read.  Atwood pretty well described the bizzarre right-wing cross between religious right and political neo-con, and well before Bush came along.

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tstreet on October 16, 2006 - 11:00am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
GMO crops are all about control of plant life forms and the ability to make it impossible for the farmer to grow his own seed crop.  Monsanto has sued farmers for growing GMO corn that they did not even plant, corn that migrated from GMO fields to non GMO fields. Whether or not GMO corn is more productive than conventional corn is a side issue.  It is not about feeding the world less expensively; it is about the money and the ability to make the farmer completely dependent upon the chemical companies like Monsanto.

 

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john milton on October 14, 2006 - 1:42am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Or mabe there is pollen drift from the fuel corn to the food corn and we wind up eating the fuel stuff whatever the growing conditions are that year :(
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DavidM on October 13, 2006 - 11:26pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
This was oriented toward supply, rather than conservation, and thus the conservation aspects did not really come up much.

Contrast with the Community Solutions conference:

"We are no longer attracted by the siren singers of breakthrough technologies that promise us we can continue living in a manner that denies a future for our children," Murphy told conference participants.

"The solutions are not going to come from the same people who created the problem," Murphy said. "The answers are not in the corporations of technology but in the villages and neighborhoods."

And

Heinberg compared the emphasis today on developing alternative energy sources such as wind and solar power to heroin addicts lining the shelves with methadone instead of reducing their heroin use.

"How about if we just start using less oil? That's the only thing that's going to make any difference, because as long as we're lining the shelves with alternatives we're going keep increasing our oil consumption," Heinberg said.

"So the Oil Depletion Protocol goes straight to the problem and says that each nation shall aim to reduce oil consumption by at least the world depletion rate," Heinberg said. He explained that the protocol can be implemented by organizations and individuals who assess their current oil consumption and plan to reduce the total by three percent per year.


http://www.communitysolution.org/06pconf1.html
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DelusionaL on October 14, 2006 - 11:02am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin - For every 100 people who attack the symptoms of a problem 1 will attack the cause.
Our leaders are in the 100 group.  I suspect that your post will generate less conversation than it should..(!)..(!).  IMHO People collectively want a techno fix - to keep a lifestyle that is not sustainable.  I think Easter Island gives us a look at our future unless disease of somesort restores balance.  
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