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287 comments on DrumBeat: October 17, 2006

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davidsmi on October 17, 2006 - 8:38pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Clearly, you and I live on different planets.
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johnnybonk on October 17, 2006 - 10:39pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Are you saying that as of October 2006 humankind is not experiencing rapid increase in material wellbeing?
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davidsmi on October 18, 2006 - 11:18am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
A rapid increase in material well being is occurring among a select portion of the planet's population. Among another select portion material well being is declining. On average? difficult to say, but it sure isn't as rosy as you seem to think.

And of course, there is the question of whether or not the measures of material well being we can make are indicative of people's lives.

And then there is the most important issue, which is whether or not material well being is even what we should be concerned with (beyond basic lving standards).

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johnnybonk on October 18, 2006 - 8:52pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Davidsmi, you should strongly consider the possibility that you are not seeing the world for what it is.

Things are getting better for most people, and the poor are seeing the greatest improvements in material wellbeing.

This is not to say that we are "happier" or "more fulfilled" or that our lives are more "meaningful", but the people of the world are better provided for than ever before.

I never forget that the happiest people on Earth are recorded to be the Nigerians, and Nigeria really is a poverty and violence ridden country, but I was talking about "material wellbeing". Also intersting to note that "happiness" seems more correlated to relative than absolute income, but that's not the point I was making.

Take a look - the third world is booming - see it and celebrate it.

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davidsmi on October 18, 2006 - 9:04pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
prove it - everything you say is counter to the statistics collected by the UN, the US, the EU, the World Bank, the IMF, you name it.
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johnnybonk on October 18, 2006 - 9:25pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
OK, I am willing. Shall we start with all the reports done by UN,USA,EU,WB and IMF this year.

We can go through them one by one.

I am willing.

You list all the reports, then we will agree a subset of them that are relevant, then have a look at them.

This will take months, but I am willing.

I look forward to your list of reports.

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tate423 on October 19, 2006 - 2:11pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Johnny,

You're the one making the claims.  You should be the one doing the proving and providing your source material from which you've drawn your conclusions.

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davidsmi on October 19, 2006 - 7:44pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
My bad - again I left off the <sarcasm> tag. I was trying to poke fun at grandiose claims made without backing. I failed.

Still, if you really are interested you might want to check out some of the very good papers at the UN site (we are in the midst of their effort to halve poverty by 2015.

Here's one I found particularly interesting -
http://www.un.org/esa/desa/papers/2006/wp20_2006.pdf

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johnnybonk on October 20, 2006 - 4:07pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
That paper is not a UN paper, the UN specifically disclaims any responsiblity for it. It is merely a paper submitted to the UN and the UN does not vouch for it. Many bad and wrong papers are submitted to the UN.

In fact it is by Simms and nef - no more reliable than Exxon.

The UN publishes (and vouches) hundreds of papers every year that deal with this, but that is not one of them.

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davidsmi on October 20, 2006 - 6:32pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Hmmm, let me see. I suggest looking at papers at the UN site. You claim its not a UN sponsored paper. Did you even read what I wrote? Did I claim it was a UN sponsored paper? I said I found it interesting.

Looks like you are more interesting in negating something that  you think might go against your preconceived notions. Did you even look at the paper? I suggested it because of the discussion in it, some of which might actually support your position.

Please, if you want to have a discussion about this, at least do me the favor of participating in a conversation, not simply making your pronouncements.

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johnnybonk on October 20, 2006 - 7:10pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
ok, point taken, you did not claim it to be a UN paper.
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