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“This order [i.e. capitalism] is now bound to the technical and economic conditions of machine production which today determine the lives of all the individuals who are born into this mechanism, not only those directly concerned with the economic acquisition, with irresistible force. Perhaps it will so determine them until the last ton of fossilized coal is burnt.”
—Max Weber, 1905
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The interesting thing is that the truth about the challenge our civilization is facing is emerging in places that one might not expect. The key is for environmentalists and military strategists (as well as the rest of us) to work together so we all don't end up eating old shoes for dinner (unless of course your worldview calls for eating old shoes, more power to you, mine doesn't.)
Cassandra
CassandraOil, your points...
"Clearly the Navy has more successfully adapted to the post Peak Oil environment",
"Yes, I know, aircraft carriers and all."
For various reason, I have never been a fan of nuclear energy. Yes, it will work, and yes, it makes loads of concentrated power, and I do not have any great disdain for it, I just don't think it makes sense in the civilian power market.
However, as Hyman Rickover understood when he created the nuclear navy, in military applications, nuclear has much to give, beside just weapons.
If it should ever become needed, nuclear applied to the oil shale and tar sands would assure enough energy to run a vast military machine seemingly forever, if no other drain were to be made on the fuels in question. The military know it, we the public know it, and our enemies know it.
The two deciding and crucial factors are wealth and will. It might not be cheap. On the other hand, if the EROEI of conventional fossil fuels continued to rise, it could actually be a bargain, from a dollar cost standpoint, if you lay aside environmental and safety aspects. This brings us to the point of will, that is, at what point would a military establishment exceed the tolerance of it's own people in it's practices and be seen as a greater threat than any enemy. A major nuclear accident or environmental catastrophe could bring a breaking point, at which point the military would have to decide whether it should resist it's own people to hold on to power, or to pull back from the most radical methods. The Red Army in the U.S.S.R faced something of exactly that nature in it's final days, before the culture the army was defending collapsed, thus ending the validity of the Soviet military. But there seems to be no indication whatsoever that the barrier to the military having fuel is a technical one. In closing it must be remembered that no other military in the world has an exemption from the need for energy if they intend to stay viable and competitive.
If I had to pick a military to bet on, it would be one that has a supply of crude oil, natural gas, coal, untapped alternatives like shale oil, landspace for biofuel, an advanced technical and nuclear sector inside it's own area of control. a large electric power grid with hydroelectric as a stable strategic area in which to build munitions and other technology and an educated workforce. Yep, The United States strategic situation is still dammed hard to top. In fact, it's the one area of our cultural heritage and destiny we have expended the effort to maintain.
Roger Conner known to you as ThatsItImout
As a matter of fact, our God is bigger than anybody else's, as noted by the man who is currently Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warfighting Support. (What a great job for a self-professed follower of Jesus Christ - 'Warfighting Support.' You just can't make this stuff up.)
Besides, war makes a nation great. It says so right in this German book from the 1920s - oops, wrong book. Or the writings of some short French guy from the early 1800s - oops, wrong again. I meant the Constitution, which is just chock full of information about how to make napalm and cruise missiles, while giving the president power beyond any restraint, to ensure liberty and justice for whoever the president thinks deserves it.
No, Americans are pretty clueless about war means, and they honestly think Hollywood's version of it is real, while blocking any attempt to show the reality of war from its citizens, as such imagery is just too disturbing to be broadcast.
As a final note - the part about 'anti-American' is in jest, as is the part about napalm and cruise missiles. Sadly, the rest is more true than not, and is not in jest at all.
"You can't say Americans are not
more violent than other people?
No!
All those people killed in shootings
in America?
Shootings. That doesn't mean Americans
are more violent than other people.
We're just better shots. "
Whit Stillman - Barcelona
... "That's what's great about
getting involved with a foreigner.
You can't take it personally.
What's really terrific is that when we act
in ways which might objectively...
...seem assholish, or incredibly annoying,
they don't get upset at all.
They just assume it's some
national characteristic.
I was simply dealing with the technical aspect of energy, not the larger moral/cultural/philospophical discussion of war in general. Even most Americans will agree that our latest adventure was ill thought out from the start, leaving aside the ethical issues.
War is a waste and a mistake by someone whenever and wherever they occur. It is seldom in history that a country gets to say "Dang, I'm glad we got in that war". They are best avoided if possible.
We live in interesting times. War is a waste of resources, and the one thing that most of us agree on here at TOD is that resources may be in short supply in the world for the foreseeable future. Have we reached the age in which war, like giant showy cars and houses are a luxury we simply can't afford?
If so, do we have enough sense to realize it?
Roger Conner known to you as ThatsItImout
So, will we continue to compete for a diminishing resources, even though competition through warfare will deplete those resources at an even faster rate? Or are we capable of learning behaviors different from what got us this far.
Don't ask me what outcome I would bet on, but we really have no choice but to try and achieve the latter.
Tony Verbalis
After any war, the US Tendency has always been to go isolationist.
In times past, the US has been able to afford to do just that because it was blessed with resources and a level of self sufficient primary commercial activity (lumber, metals, oil, coal, grain, fruit, livestock etc.) These commodities had its own internal markets (cloth mills, steel production, shops on main street, gun and tool makers, excellent furniture and cabinet makers etc. Oh, and some very fine small town architecture)
ps , I have a few pieces of your colonial style furniture. It is elegant, functional, and still works.
So, with all this intrinsic wealth and three thousand miles from the nearest threat on either side, The US was in a unique position to withstand the tempests of the world. It got you in pole position after the Great War and confirmed your position as the climax industrial civilisation after the Second World War.
After Iraq, the isolationist tendency will gain ground, except that this time, the US is interdependent on globalised trade; especially for raw energy.
This garden of eden , capable of ignoring the world's problems is now fatally flawed: Your offshoring-capitalists have wrecked your ability to look after yourselves. Do you know (for example) where your filter masks come from in the event of avian flu breaking out?
- Thats right, you have offshored it to SE Asia (the place where they are likely to have first call, and you can whistle for help). Same goes for plastic syringes.
You have offshored your entire strategic wealth. All in the name of globalisation, and all due to the prancing of the wealthy b(w)ankers, economists and financial managers.
(talk about the 'empty raincoat'...)
Truly, at some point in the future, you will consider shooting these creatures through both lungs with cross hatched ammo. And all because they sold you all down the river.
But by then , it will be too late. They will have made a pile and you will be outside the lifeboat.
I think I am looking at the demise of the greatest nation on earth (how many others have planted a flag on the moon?).
And all for a handfull of a rich, preppy elite who turned you all over for a percentage.
It really is time you got a grip on your nationhood and took back what they have stolen from you.
Still. Fly the flag, buy junk, send your boys and girls to fight in criminal wars and be returned physically and psychologically mutilated.
But dont forget: your doing it for men and women who wear the enamelled 'old glorys' on the lapels of their hand made suits.
Have a nice day :-)
Quite good actually and quite accurate in general.
Yes, it was the yuppies that did it. The yups that the boomers raised. Gave them everything. Plenty of 'timeouts' and soccer, with mom in the drivers seat of the SUV mind you and papa taking the stick over his back yet pissing it all away for a easy piece of female pleasure(I won't use the word ASS here though) but its a better fit(sexual revolution ,doncha know).
So what we have are a bunch of whining, spoiled , thumbsuckers who have been sheltered by mum from the realities of life and given the formula for destroying life.
How could it have turned out differently? They moved into the workerbee bullpens and right on into mgmt. They became the egoistic , short term goal, risk adverse assholes of corporate Amurka. They watched Clinton for the right moves and along with his sidekick Ron Brown showed how it was all done.
We inherited this mess. Now we will die with it. The ones who did it should be the ones to take the first incoming rounds and by golly I think they will, praise be to Allah , be he so merciful for finally setting the ending act up.
Yes its all over and we understand that each time we travel to Grannies house for Thanksgiving, even though the young pups threw her in a nursing home long long ago and grabbed her assets as well. Travel like I did along the interstates and watch the pitiful madness we are. The utter total absolute stupidity of Amurka and the generation who spawned such ignorant abhorrent,suckass lifestyles.
I spent four days doing this and was amazed at what I hadn't seen in a while. Its like they say here. We are dead. Not a chance in hell. We are dead Amurkans walking or better who just haven't stopped driving as yet.
Its was fun for the 'Class of '57' while it lasted. Rock and Roll, Elvis, trips to the moon, teenangels, hot rods and .........finally the exit.. for the fat lady is truly singing. Singing her fat ass off. Next the curtain falls.
airdale--locked down tight on the farm
P.S. I admit freely that both of my offspring are to blame just as much though I was not a boomer. I took the stick. Each day I fought the good fight and lost. The MSM took care of that. Divorce in the offing took the rest. Children who spit on your ideas and thoughts about how to live properly. Yes I fought and lost. Now its me, the dogs and the farm.
P.P.S. Screw you Dr. Spock and your buddy Dr. Phil. Jerks!
Use foreigners.
See French Foreign Legion and how many times they have been deployed into combat. Puts the US to shame !
Alan
Doubleplus Cassandra.
The idea that we start the downslide and everything else stays equal, that oil is simply more expensive, I don't buy it. An aircraft carrier, nuke powered or not, won't go anywhere without its convoy. Likewise, oil tankers will only move in convoys. We won't be able to make dacron to make sails for sail powered oil tankers. We won't be able to rebuild the entire infrastructure.
The DOD report highlights conservation, life-style change, substitution and deprivation. That four letter word - LESS. And LESS in a context of social unrest.
cfm in Gray, ME
The only way a Powerdown type strategy will work is if the military is willing to come into your house and kick your ass should you use more than your share since people are, more or less, wired to cheat when it comes to these things.
There is an inherent irony here in that many "peak oil activists" came out of the anti-war or peace and justice movements.
Sadly, Jay had it right about these matters.