154 comments on World Crude Oil Production Forecast using Current Fields and Future Megaprojects
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154 comments on World Crude Oil Production Forecast using Current Fields and Future Megaprojects
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GAIA Host Collective
Exactly ..
The problems caused by post peak oil issues occur when supply becomes significantly less than normal demand. This only takes a few years post peak.
Lets assume that the "peak effect" occurs when supply is 2-3 mbd less than normal demand.
That's why I'm concerned about peak oil now since it only takes a few years at most after peak oil before major problems occur.
What is "normal demand"? Is the demand created by 5.8l V8s normal? Or is the demand that would be created by a fleet of Prius normal? Is the demand created by people commuting on bus and rail normal? How about the demand created by EVs powered by PV?
The reality of PO only collides with the imaginary reality of a world that drives ever larger and more cars. That particular reality is simply not going to happen. Major economic problems will not occur because there is an enormous amount of waste in the system that can be cut out. We are not truly dependent on oil for survival. There will be major financial problems for those who do not manage to reduce that waste faster than the true supply will collapse. But then... people who had a 50 year warning should not bitch about that. It simply looks silly.
Infinite: What you are saying is very politically incorrect on TOD.
LOL
But it needs to be said anyway.
"Oh, I see it's taken us 3 years since we became PO-aware(or at least acknowledged that prices are high) to shift our fleet to hybrids, looks like our costs are the same as before and our problems are sol.... wait, you're saying gas is gonna cost 20% MORE next year? and the year after that? and the year after that? WTF? How can you expect me to work in these circumstances? May as well go out of business."
See: that conversation repeated time after time after time, and then tell me that major economic problems aren't inevitable. In 1929, we'd concentrated too much wealth at the top of the ladder, and let the poor produce too much that they couldn't themselves buy on their income. Is that anywhere near as serious as a 5% decline rate in the product by which we built our landscape around?
The trillions of dollars that need to be written off by the time oil consumption is reduced to a half or a third of its current level by simple geographic obsolescence will of course affect our economy in a major way if it occurs over even a decade or two. A gradual elimination of all North American imports amidst dollar superinflation, a continued third-world economic awakening, and domino-effect oil nationalism (as the peak is made apparent) seems to be entirely possible, though certainly not assured.
The reality of PO is a sustained decline rate in world supply. If that decline rate is 1 or 2%, we could probably manage with a mere acceleration of our current initiatives, like the much-lauded economic growth following the oil shocks. Relying mostly on imports makes our economy vulnerable to huge geopolitical positive feedback in the decline rate if it's anything over that, however.
And only 69% of consumption is transportation of all types: Slashing every SUV tire in the country can't really offset a significant decline rate for long.
""Oh, I see it's taken us 3 years since we became PO-aware(or at least acknowledged that prices are high) to shift our fleet to hybrids, looks like our costs are the same as before and our problems are sol.... wait, you're saying gas is gonna cost 20% MORE next year? and the year after that? and the year after that? WTF? How can you expect me to work in these circumstances? May as well go out of business."
But why is this guy giving up, instead of going to the next logical step, plug-in hybrids, which can double mileage again?
Plug-in hybrids won't solve the road problem. I've gathered and presented enough evidence I feel to prove that maintaining our road infrastructure post peak will be difficult and expensive.
People forget about the subsidies required to make personal transport cost effective but they are large. Next we can expect zero to negative growth post peak this will cause severe constraints on the amount of taxes that can be collected to continue to maintain our current infrastructure much less expand it.
So overall I don't see plug-in hybrids and being a solution for us. Certainly they should be part of the equation as oil gets more expensive but even looking out 15 years post peak we need to consider alternatives.
You need to identify the absolute best solution which is electric rail/trolley and potentially plug-in hybrid taxi's as the main transport system.
Plug-in hybrid cars would fit in this scenario as local runabouts for shopping/transport to the rail line. If that's the use scenario a all electric car could readily handle the less than 100 mile range needed for this use case.
Its questionable that they are even needed with effective alternative transport.
The end of this sort of analysis is that is far better to focus getting the replacement electric rail/trolley infrastructure in place and foster mixed use areas and basically revive the corner store. The medium term utility of personal transport regardless of power source seems to be marginal at best. Given the 15 year replacement time we can expect to replace the entire fleet twice in 30 years but in 30 years the amount of fuel available seems to be far less than needed for a hybrid fleet/road network. And this does not even account for the global warming issues around maintaining a scattered road based infrastructure.
I'd certainly buy a plugin hybrid if one was available that met my needs but I don't consider them a solution since their viability in even 15 years is questionable.
I'm relatively certain that numerous people have pointed out that asphalt can be recycled and new oil added via biofuel processes. Because of this fact, it will never become un-economic to maintain our roads as long as they are used. Besides, asphalt only uses a tiny fraction of our total oil supply. We wont be running up against that wall for at least 100 years...
This is fallacious logic. Gasoline only uses a fraction of our total oil supply. That does not extend the time that we need to think about the effects of a reduction in supply in gasoline, beyond the period when total oil supply peaks.
It's not like we can avoid thinking about asphalt for 100 years because we'll have no trouble eliminating all non-aphalt uses. Asphalt prices will rise along with everything else. Furthermore, oil currently used in asphalt may enter the energy side of the equation as a fuel, if that utility value ends up greater than the utility value of sitting in a roadbed.
>I'm relatively certain that numerous people have pointed out that asphalt can be recycled and new oil added via biofuel processes. Because of this fact, it will never become un-economic to maintain our roads as long as they are used. Besides, asphalt only uses a tiny fraction of our total oil supply. We wont be running up against that wall for at least 100 years...
We are not just talking about asphalt. A lot of other materials are used such as concrete and steel (or over passes), not to mention the energy inputs to transport materials and install them. To recycle asphalt and concrete still requires energy to transport it to the processing facility and energy to reform it. In the case of asphalt it needs to be reheated and concrete is even more energy intensive since it has to be pulverised and reheated to much higher temperatures.
In the near future road construction and maintainance materials will become considerable more expensive.
I agree to a point, but in this spoiled society if high prices alone are used as rationing tools there will be social unrest. If/when civil order breaks down it will not be pleasant for anyone.
False statement, ergo conclusions drawn therefrom are incorrect. Planetary population was near peak capacity before WWII and global starvation was a concern then. Since then the "green revolution" has allowed population to exceed that 1.5 billion cap and it is entirely dependent on fossil hydrocarbons for fuel, fertilizer, pesticides, etc.
Remove the fossil fuel subsidy and you kill approximately 5 billion human beings.
Now, you will argue that we have enough fossil fuels to feed the planet for a long time and this is true but at what standard of living? Further, you dismiss the move to alternative energy sources, alternatively powered transportation, etc., with a single sentence when in reality all of that represents tens of trillions of dollars of investment. So you are going to just write off all that decades of investment to support 6+ billion people with a wave of the hand and expect no repercussions whatsoever?
Sir, your post smacks of naivety that is laughable were the implications not so horrible.
The costs of moving to alternatives will be gigantic and will disrupt global civilization. Further, some societies will choose to not accept this at first and instead will decide to maneuver for what they perceive is "theirs", even as the US has already begun to do in the Middle East. It's already obvious that China and Russia are taking different but obviously energy related approaches to world affairs. India and Europe are showing these signs too. And if circumstances warrant, they will go to war over oil. In case you forget, the US entry into WWII was precipitated by the world's leading oil producer at that time (the US) placing an embargo on Japan, which then tried to secure alternative fuel supplies via military action. Note also that after the embargo by Saudi Arabia in 1973 that subsequently, Carter enunciated the "Carter Doctrine" which states that free access to fossil fuel supplies in the Middle East is a vital interest to the US. In case you don't speak diplomatic gobbledygook that means that the US has told the entire world that it can and will go to war if Middle Eastern oil supplies are threatened. (That's what a declaration of vital interest means. That's why Japan's reaction was so poorly taken by the world - because they had not declared the oil and rubber of Southeast Asia to be vital national interests to Japan yet they then attacked.)
In short, your post is absurd because it overlooks the ecological impacts of overshoot human population, the dependency of that population on fossil fuels, the global infrastructure investment that is centered around fossil fuels, and the historical documented behavior of homo sapiens when confronted with threats to that fossil fuel supply. You are the one that extols the economy, sir, yet in the next breath you ignore the tens of trillions of dollars of existing investment in the fossil fuel based infrastructure as if it will magically be replaced at the drop of a hat if anything threatens the fossil fuel supply.
Your contradicting assumptions are breathtaking. You have apparently ignored Stuart's documentation that it will take at least a decade and a half to turn over the entire fleet of vehicles and that is only if everyone recognizes and accepts the proposition that oil is in decline. Stuart's other work has shown that housing investment will take the better part of a century to turn over or have to be written off as lost investment. Do you even grasp the scope of the depression we are discussing by writing off the transportation and suburban housing infrastructure in almost its entirety? It seems not.
You, sir, are the one that looks silly.
GZ's casual "Remove the fossil fuel subsidy and you kill approximately 5 billion human beings." is yet another reason TOD and similar sites that push DIEOFF will never attain credibility.
Again we see an amateur futurist making brash statements w/o any sense of timeline. Like those that don't understand the Reserve/Production ratio and the concept that oil won't be at full production and then stop dead in the 40th year, neither will stock availabiltiy to the agri industry halt dead in its tracks.
The Peakster movement still hasn't grasped the work of its own advocates (campbell/laherrere/skrebowski/koppelaar) that oil won't stop on PEAK DAY. There will be flows for necessities until 2075 according to the most pessimistic of the future Outlooks (OPEC). Most of the others don't see exhaustion until the 22nd Century. The optimistic Scenarios see flow 'til the mid 23rd Century.
GZ's DIEOFF many happen. But it presupposes no alternatives at the decadal to centuric level. His post is plain nonsense with its sense of urgency.
Hello Fraudy. Good to see you still posting here. Trolling for more gullibles to pay you money for your unscientific (and not peer reviewed) bullcrap again? You might do better at some other site.
Good luck looking for more suckers for your "Fraudy" Hutter timelines.
Using "peak oil depletion" as keywords, Google has my site at #12 this week. #8 at Metacrawler (world's best search engine). That was out of 1.1 Million results. I found yours, GZ, in the bottom percentile. Great place for the bottom feeders, eh...
I don't write a blog seeking handouts from people by peddling fraudulent and non-scientific data or by trying to pass it off as such. So you are high on the Google list? Whoopdeedoo, Fraudy. Lots of sites get more visits than yours does. Does that mean they are all constructive sites? No, and neither is yours.
Now go try to recruit fools for your "pay-me" schemes elsewhere.
I wouldn’t expect your standing to be anything less than it is, for the ratio of the gullible to the informed is about a thousand to one.