What a surprise to find here a post of the famous (on Oleocene.org french site at least) GillesH38 ! It would be so nice to have a french site of the quality of TOD.

The blindness of EIA is incredible, good job man.

You think EIA is bad? Check out IEA one of these days.

10 years later and IEA, EIA & Lynch are on the money.

Yup, smekhovo, your forecast role models are the only fantasy around here:

Well, it looks like there's an upside to oil production and it looks like there's a downside. IEA to Lynch say there's only an upside and Campbell et al. said it's time for the downside - obviously a few years too early. Looks like the upside has been lasting a lot longer than Campbell thought, right Freddy?. IEA et al just keep saying that the upside is supposed to work like the Everready battery.

Too bad we're not in advertising here...

Removing the personalities, this seems to me to be the central problem in a peak oil prediction. Calling any peak, in any domain, is harder than naming the general trend. The example that springs to mind now is the housing bubble. I know people who have been calling a top for 20 years, but were wrong for 19 of those years.

It is always the best bet to say that next year will be a lot like this one. That is the statistically correct prediction. It will be right for say 19 years, until it is wrong.

Calling the 20th year, or peak oil, is tricky business. I think we have to hold ourselves in check by saying that we have indications rather than any sorts of proofs.

Good points.

The main mistakes with the past peak predictions are the same ones being made repeatedly on this board. Some have been calling for a peak for nearly two decades now - eventually they will be correct.

Well, I told my brother back in '04 that he should sell his appt. in Washington DC because the market was overheating. He didn't take the bait. Even now, why sell?

At the same time I argued that China would continue many years into the future with 10% growth because there is a dynamic behind it that can't (at least not with any normal measures) be shut off. For these reasons it only makes sense to continue to do as the EI what have yous do and assume that the past will continue into the future. That is also the meaning of time elapsed growth shift seen in Gilles' figure 1. There is no real "thought" behind it. The trend just remains your friend, right? Until it switches, of course.

I'm wondering if the production models (if any) used by Lynch and the EIA\IEA are only able to predict an exponential growth which has basically only one parameter (the growth rate). The growth rate has always been around 1.5-2.0% per year for the last 20 years. Using a model with only one parameter is obviously a lot less risky that using a logistic curve for instance which has 3 parameters.

You say "less risky" but does either method produce a probability with its forecast? Or does probability remain a secondary, fuzzy, human, meta-judgement?

That's a tricky question. Based on recent production history, a 2% growth rate is very likely. However, an exponential growth cannot go forever in a physical world so the exponential model is very unlikely on a large time scale.

I agree. In fact, sustained exponential growth is not sustainable in most systems on even a medium or short time scale. Overshoot and collapse is an all too common response in everything from prices to populations.

I worried that someone would take the idea that 2% can't continue "forever" and flip it to a psuedo-proof of collapse.

The fact is, it isn't a proof of that or anything else. There might be plateaus, there might be soft landings, there might be a "long tail" ... who knows?

This is a really good point.

The simplest model which HAS worked for all commodities in the past in an exponential model.

If Q = total fraction of resource recovered then exponentional growth is given by

dQ/dt = AQ and hence Q = exp(At) where A is some constant, a single parameter fit as khebab says.

Well the interesting thing is if you form the ratio dQ/dt/Q and plot it as function of time you should get
dQ/dt / Q = A - a constant as a function of time.

This is the well-known, (to TOD readers), Hubbert Linearization plot and rather than being a simple constant, shows a decrease as a function of time for all mature reqions, including the whole world.

A better approximation is to use

dQ/dt = AQ*(1-Q)

Which gives a Bell-shaped curve for dQ/dT and is the basis of many predictions for near term peaks in world Oil production, including my own.

However this is also an approximation and the real-world will almost certainly show some deviations from this. As I said before, if I had to bet on future world Oil production I'd go with Khebab's loglet analysis, although even that is not currently sensitive to new technologies that would come into play with Oil prices sustained above $60 Barrel.

In any case, Oil consumption accounts for approximately 40% of world CO2 emmissions, gas accounts for 20% and coal accounts for aboout the remaining 40%. Even if we have ways to increase Oil production in the future we should not it.

We should use our Fossil fuel resources to transition to new ways of providing the wealth and energy we want and need.

TOD:Canada is happy to host posts and discussions in French. If you're interested in submitting a guest post in French, contact me at Stoneleigh2006(at)msn(dot)com.

stoneleigh

not to sound crass or ignorant or both
but is there a meaningful % of people in canada that speak french and dont speak english?

I guess a more relevant question would be - what % would find an article written in french much more absorbable and informative written in french than english? (I acutally had 7 years of french but if Gilles had written this post in french, id have had a mighty struggle - except for the nifty .gif of course)

There is a significant percentage of the Quebec population that can't speak any english at all, although they are unlikely to be frequenters of TOD.

That said, my partner is a fluently bilingual francophone and a senior official of the Canadian government. Even still, she finds it difficult to read highly technical information in english and has particular difficulty with numerical information where the discussion is in english. So, if she were to read TOD, she would appreciate articles in french.

Finally, Quebecers are more likely to use search engines in french. So they might become peak oil aware through french sites from Europe, but would be unlikely to immediately discover any of the good work TOD is doing.

So, the odd french article on TOD:Canada is a good thing. Most of the Quebecers who discover TOD through a french article will probably be able to follow along quite well in english after discovering the site.

Except for along the Quebec border, there are virtually no towns or cities in Canada that break the 5% french speaking threshold needed for in-french services. But, there are hundreds of communities with significant european, asian or east indian populations that approach the 60% levels. Unfortunately, they are likely as unwelcome to post at TOD-Canada in their native tongue as they would be generally in Quebec.

I believe immigrants to Quebec are still banned from attending English schools ore erecting English signs outside and within their business premises.

Rant over...

Freddy: You are forgetting that the Quebecois are "special".

There's some people speaking french in europe too...