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I learned that they didn't work when I hit "refresh" on a recent comment and was told "Page not found".
You just killed extended discussions on this site. No, I'm not overstating for drama; I can't wade through hundred-plus comment pages looking for responses to myself, and I doubt many others will either.
That better be on the to-do list, or TOD's value is going to be largely lost.
Can you give me the address of the broken link? In order to fix the problem, I need specific information. Just saying "it doesn't work" doesn't help me that much.
Since the link no longer works (and it's no longer available through my user profile) I can't be exactly sure, but it would have been something like this:
http://www.theoildrum.com/comment/2006/12/20/164511/49/86
The format for the links to individual replies has changed, if it's even valid any more. The current system appears only to allow links to anchors within the full comments, not individual comments (and their replies). This takes a lot more bandwidth and time to load.
On top of that, the link to reply to a comment no longer bears any resemblance to the URL for the post.
I'm quite serious about the comments being essential in the user profile. If I can't tell the difference between a reply to me and some on-going chatter that I don't care about, I'm very unlikely to reload a huge page just to check. This means that extended discussion threads in comments ARE A THING OF THE PAST until you fix this.
Also, the ability to edit comments creates the potential for all kinds of mischief. I suggest turning it off.
Many people have asked for the ability to fix typos in comments they've already posted. Of course "mischief" may ensue if people remove, from their own comments, sections that got criticized later. Besides, no more joking about freudian slips? Not sure what's the best approach. Perhaps one should at least be allowed to append text to ones own existing comment.
What, no more "auto-formatting"? I loved that feature! Who wants to type HTML tags?
Also, after hitting "post" it reloads the whole story, that's very very slow if there are lots of comments and one has a slow connection. The old way, giving a small "thank you for contributing" confirmation page, was much better. I then went back to, and refreshed, the story page later when I wanted to, rather than right away.
Another issue with the new TOD is that a long page doesn't all load at once, it breaks after a certain length and there's a "next" link on the bottom. I think that would make it harder to check on all new comments in a long discussion, since they would be scattered among the sub-pages, and one would need to load them all, manually. I'd rather see it as one big page. If that's not possible or acceptable, can a "user preferences" thingy be set up so that users can choose how long to make a page before breaking it?
The ability to edit a comment should disappear once the comment is replied to. If anyone notices a deviation from this behavior, please let me know.
Very soon we'll be adding a WYSIWYG text editor that blows auto-format away.
Related (I think) to vtpeaknik concern :
Also, after hitting "post" it reloads the whole story, that's very very slow if there are lots of comments and one has a slow connection.
I noticed the disappearance of the "Parent" button which allowed an easy access to the primary source but also conveniently sliced out a thread sub-tree.
That would be very nice to reinstate something like that and not only for the sake of slow connections.
Alas, I expect this to be quite a non trivial change in the underlying cogs and wheels.
The ability to edit a comment should disappear once the comment is replied to
Well... that's a bit better but still there is the case that someone is typing an reply and the author of the orginal post modifies it *while* the reply is being typed in (happened with me today).
Personally - I used to like the edit post idea before, because of my non-native English, but frankly in it's current version it can make things worse than before.
OK, EP, your points are well taken. I'll address the comment issue as soon as I can. But please take note of how much of the site hasn't changed. Any changes you do see are most likely a reflection of an oversight on my part and not the result of a conscious decision by the TOD leadership. It took TOD 2.0 about a year to get where it was, so you can't expect everything in TOD 3.0 to work perfectly on the first day.
Feedback from everyone is encouraged, but I remind people that I am a volunteer who does this in my ever-shrinking spare time. I'm not making excuses--you should expect nothing but the best--but the tone you use will have a big effect on how quickly I get around to addressing your particular pet peeve with the new site.
Don't think that I don't appreciate the work (it's amazing how little hassle there is, which shows how much brainpower goes into making it that way) but some features just aren't optional any more. It may have made sense to postpone the migration until that could be done.
I commend Super G for all the hard work. I'm sure the glitches will get worked out, but it is amazing for the first day. Congratulations and thanks.
Ditto that. The ability to see a list of my comments, and to jump immediately to that portion of the thread rooted at one of them, was very useful. I recall small but very educational discussions held over several days, which are probably not possible if I must remember where/when such a discussion is happening. Hopefully this is a capability that can be recovered under the new system.
Using the find function of the browser is easy in a given drumbeat, but if you're a prolific poster and have ten posts you're expecting to sprout comments, in five different threads, the utility of reloading five different pages and then reading downward from each rapidly diminishes. It's about seeing whether people have replied at a glance, rather than finding your own posts.
As I've noted before, the population and the volume of news items in Drumbeat (topical articles aren't so bad) are larger than can be accommodated comfortably in a restricted-blog setting. Checking the page that was removed is the only way we've been able to cope with long discussions.
I'd like to see a Drumbeat in a different form: a lone forum where Leanan posts news items individually that are stickied for 1 day, and are visible with a short description. Other people can make non-stickied posts. The rest of the forum self-orders based on date of last post, and below the top level, the posts are nested like they are now. So long major discussions can be had without fragmenting into two weeks of Drumbeats, people can post original content as they wish, people can reply to individual news items in an organized fashion, and readability is highly improved for those without much time on their hands.
Just go to the thread you're interested in, and search the page for your username. Of course the old way was better, but until its working again, just adapt to the new circumstances. A lot of this site is actually about coping with (very large) changes in the way things work, so starting with a small-scale change like this may be good practise.
I think you could have put this a little better, EP. However you regard your comment, I was somewhat stunned when I read it and clearly Super G took offence. Site migration is not for the faint-hearted, and inevitably there will always be issues that take time to sort out. To be so to aggressive towards someone who's given his unpaid time to implement this over the Christmas holiday period shows a surprising lack of tact, especially from someone who's listed as a TOD contributor.
Just an observation, but I'm willing to bet you're piqued by it. Well, now you know how Super G feels.
I calls 'em as I sees 'em. I'm neither exaggerating nor pulling punches, and I'm not alone.
This is a problem which could have been foreseen by examining the web server logs. Lots of hits had to have been to user profiles, especially users' own profiles. Lots of hits had to have been to comment sub-trees. Nobody in the position to know asked what readers were using this for, and what would happen if it went away.
Nobody mentioned that it would go missing. Users would have spoken up before the fact.
Now that we have this critical functionality discarded in the migration, Super G is hearing about it. Well, his technical work is incredibly good, no doubt about that. But this bespeaks a management failure, and if we're not supposed to tell management when something is wrong, we might as well give up on TOD.
Listen. This is a big site with a lot of functionality. I didn't expect to get everything right on the first try, which is why I did the upgrade on the lowest traffic day of the year. If you keep the comments constructive and lay off the melodrama, you might just get your precious feature by the end of the day.
Merry Christmas, Super G!
Thanks for all your hard work!
If you can manage this by the end of the day, you're freakin' awesome.
Heck, if you can manage it in a week I'll be pretty happy. I just don't want anyone to underestimate just what it means for TOD's usability.
I just went through the new comments links (that was quick!), and noticed that the critical part people have been crying for is missing: a count of replies to the comment.
I hope that's coming. If you're in a position to play Santa Claus, here's a wish-list:
Some other things about the new user comments page:
And about comments themselves:
I've got the feeling that things are going to be okay. Whew! What a relief.
We staff members were the beta-testers, so I guess you can blame us if some bugs slipped through.
I did notice the "order of comments" thing, and posted it to the beta site, in the thread in which I noticed it, but I guess I should have posted it to the thread SuperG set up for beta-testing discussion.
The no "your comments" thing is something that you don't really notice when you're playing with a dummy board and not actually having a real discussion. And I confess, I almost never used that function anyway.
I always thought the "your comments" thing was one of the finer aspects of the TOD
I use "your comments" at dKos, but rarely used it at TOD. The number of articles posted at dKos is just so overwhelming (and the search engine so inadequate) that it was often the only way to even find a thread you were interested in. TOD is still small enough that I prefer to read the entire thread, not just the replies to my own posts. Just my preference; I realize YMMV.
In my case, this will be crippling for long threads. FireFox has the mis-feature of running the rendering engine at a high enough priority that it freezes out the UI, including the mouse. If I have some huge page rendering, I can literally not move the mouse (except in huge, infrequent jerks) until it's done. Getting FF to switch tabs so I can read something else can take 10-20 seconds. Loading only sub-trees is the way around this. Was.
Going to my usual entry page at TOD and being told "Page not found"... that wasn't pleasant.
My favorite browser (under Windows) is Opera, lightweight, starts fast, supports tabs, etc. On Linux I use lynx, it is superfast :)