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"Now that they just discovered that wind requires some (in most cases) fossil powered backup,..."
Eventually the Firsties of the world will have to learn to adapt their lives and livelyhoods to the availability of energy - like they are doing in the up-and-coming second and third worlds (from Leanan's Links above):
----
"I always have to laugh at the way the media is reflecting our energy problems...
I think we are going to see many more such "eureka" moments from the press over the years ahead - probably the same phenomena that happened to most all of us as we researched Peak Energy.
First we/they discover some technology (old or new) as a substitute for fossil fuel sources. Later, "upon further review", we/they discover there are limitations to the pet technology and then realize the "Silver Bullet" is at best a silver BB. The lag time between the two depends on how long it takes people to question their assumptions about their new "discovery."
During the holidays several friends and relatives apparenly just discovered natural gas-powered cars, ethanol and coal gasification ("Hitler Used It in WWII".... yeah, and look how things turned out for hitler ;). They happily reported the "breakthroughs."
They are clearly still in denial and also in an argumentative mode so I just nodded and left the discussion. "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference" - or never argue with suckers, there's one born every minute and you'll die of exhaustion.
It's NOT PEAK ENERGY! It's PEAK OIL.
Re: "It's NOT PEAK ENERGY! It's PEAK OIL."
And Natural Gas. Definitely in North America, but we are not far away from peak natural gas elsewhere as well. Our knowledge of what is out there for natural gas is pretty deficient.
Furthermore, climate change says we should not be using coal to substitute for oil and natural gas. This combination of issues gets us pretty close to peak energy.
Uh, "pretty close"?
Yeah, if 2075 is pretty close. Oh brother.
Sorry Hothgar, but peak oil is peak energy - and peak matter.
Errr, peak oil doens't matter.
The end of underpriced energy (in relation to gathering photons in the now and making them work for us) and the effects on the economic system is what the peak is all about.
You really should have ended your post after, "Errr..." - or maybe added an "ah...um..ah... nevermind" to it.
Thanks for your comment. IT has added SO much value here - makes ya look like a sage.
what energy source powers polyannaland ?
Hot air.
I think you misunderstand their situation -- they're ignorant of the ramifications not in denial.
ImSceptical
"I think you misunderstand their situation -- they're ignorant of the ramifications not in denial."
Can I ask a question, ImSceptical? Do the doomers have ANY other response to those who can make distinctions, such as the difference between "oil" and "energy", the difference between "peak" and running out", the difference between the real possibility of "oil" and "gas" peaking, and the assured and apocolyptic destruction of all civilization, between "silver bb's" and real artful and intelligent design, and between "peak oil" and peak incompetence, do the the doomers have any other response other that a knee jerk accusation of "ignorance" and "denial".
Just once try to argue the case on the merits.
I love the story about wind reliability! But put it in perspective...I know of some southern cities several years ago who took the windows of out of city buses because they could not keep the air conditioning running in them. Did anyone decide that air conditioning was to unreliable to be used? Don't the energy police wish it were so...no, they realized there was nothng wrong with air conditioning as a technology, but that they were seriously short of ocmpetent technicians to maintain it.
The constant attacks by many here on anyone with a differing opinion, the fast whipping out of the term "troll", and the belief that there is one belief system and one only risk destroying the usefulness of this forum.
Roger Conner known to you as ThatsItImout
P.S. Motto for the day: It does not take a troll to see the difference, the fundamental, complete and philosophically central difference between peak oil and peak energy.