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340 comments on Key Questions on Energy Options

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dgrimm on January 24, 2007 - 2:04pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Graphs like this can be very misleading. Why would the world hold LARGE stocks of grain? You can argue food security, but no one is willing to pay for that security. Over the last 10 years, grain prices in the US and therefore the world have been quite low. So there has been a STRONG incentive to not produce grain, or do something with the grain produced. See the rapid rise in the livestock industry... If we looked at a graph of "calories available" I think it would look quite different.

If you notice the last time world stocks were below 60 days (early 1970's), we saw a dramatic rise in prices (from $1 bushel/corn to $3 bushel) that lasted until the ag economy collapse in the mid 80's. What did this price rise do -- dramatically increased grain production.

The last 10 years of low (sub $2) prices have caused a fall in grain production -- where did it go? see the increase in oilseed production for example.. What will $4 corn do -- increase production no doubt. Simple economics.

Grain for food vs. Grain for energy is worthy of an entirely different post...

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Syntec on January 24, 2007 - 7:19pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

BINGO!

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Magnus Redin on January 25, 2007 - 12:05pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Having a very large grain, etc to liquid fuel industry is essentially the same as having a large spare production for food use. In case of emergency drive less and food is available.

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Starship Trooper on January 25, 2007 - 2:16pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Not really. That grains curve is all grains, not just corn. includes wheat, rice, barley, etc. You can draw separate curves for the individual consumption characteristics of the various grains.

Second, not all corn grown for ethanol (or just plain grown) is for human consumption. A very significant portion of the corn produced is for corn meal for animal production.

Can humans consume it? Maybe. Maybe not.

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airdale on January 25, 2007 - 10:11pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

"Can humans consume it? Maybe.Maybe not."

I think you are very misinformed or just plain don't understand.

What grain is specifically grown then for ethanol?

You never heard of yellow corn meal?

Do you think they intentionally seperate the various types of corn at the dump station? White ..yes. Non-GMO vs GMO yes but not so that some doesn't get mixed in with the others.

Can humans consume it? Consume what? #3 yellow dent corn? #3 yellow dent corn?

We just dump the harvest in the bins and pits. They classify it and sell you sell it either spot or contract. Some may go one way if a buyer purchases and specifies #3 yellow dent or flint or what ever.

As you are dumping your load you may also be dumping on top of part of the other guys load in front of you.

I think we have little idea of what we are or are not consuming.

I grind up #2 yellow dent for my own cornmeal. I grind up my white if I want white. All is edible. Hybrid is hybrid. Non hybrid doesn't get classified as far as I know. I have never been asked that question by the pit crew.

You might want to call some companies who have grain operations and ask but I believe they will not tell you or obfuscate. ADM is one. CGB is another. There are more.

If you wish to make statements that can stand then you must state that its your experience or give a source. Otherwise you lead others astray.

I don't all the answers but I can find most out but what I stated is my opinion and based on harvesting and hauling to market and general knowledge.

airdale

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Starship Trooper on January 26, 2007 - 4:42pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The state of NC Department of Agriculture certainly makes this distinction, if I understood what my ex told me several years ago at the NC State Fair.

I was unaware, until about 4 years ago, that the NCDA made such a distinction and yet at one of the NCDA displays was this segregation according to whether the corn was designated for animal consumption versus human consumption.

Maybe NCDA is unique amongst states. I can ask next week when I have lunch with my ex.

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Magnus Redin on January 26, 2007 - 6:32pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Any feed that pigs can grow on commercially is good enough for keeping humans from starving. Tasty and legal are stricter requirements. Sometimes pigs get the better feed. A pig food additive made from treated oats to replace antibiotics as a stomache stabilizer is now sold as health food with a HUGE markup.

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