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131 comments on Is There A Painless Way To Fill The Oil Supply Gap?
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131 comments on Is There A Painless Way To Fill The Oil Supply Gap?
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That's pretty much all the standard rhetoric. Don't think of it as "new" taxes. Instead, it is "different" taxes. Why is this country punishing work with hefty payroll taxes? Why not punish pollution instead?
>>> One: Pensioners and those on a low/fixed income. Especially if they don’t already pay taxes. <<<
I already stated that social security taxes could be reduced/eliminated and that the earned income tax credit could be increased. Sorry that I forgot to mention that cost-of-living adjustments could be adjusted as well. The retired people--as a group--ignored the problem when it reared its head in the 1970's. They passed the problem to the young people; perhaps it is fair to pass the costs back to the old people.
As a fundamental concept, I think it is ridiculous to tax wages. Why are we punishing people for working? Contrast that with taxing people for polluting.
The energy waste I see is systemic. Only a systemic solution will curb the waste. You need to hit each and every person and each and every business for each and every action taken. You cannot micro-manage your way to efficiency.
Dismissing my arguments with some vauge handwaving sying that they’re “standard rhetoric” simply won’t stand up to public debate.
As usual you’re simply assuming that this “solution” can be imposed on people. This demonstrates a worrying lack of understanding of politics.
For the public to even remotely support this it will have to be demonstrated to be revenue neutral, and cost neutral to most people. Given that the stated aim is reduce consumption by its very nature it will penalise consumption. Most voters won’t accept this. Most voters are also deeply conservative when it comes to new ideas. They’re far too used to getting fleeced by the politicos. Most would not wish to give up a known evil (payroll taxes) in favour of something that is an unknown quantity. Plus most politicans are currently trying to sell this “idea” as an additional tax. They say them may reduce payroll tax, but no one is proposing that it, and its collection mechanisms, be abolished completely.
This simple fact leads most folk to simply assume that it is a massive revenue generation scheme for governments trying to cover pension deficits, medicare, etc etc
Second, you tend to forget the law of unintended consequences.
When people earn money and have payroll taxes deducted from them the government can take it as a given that people will want to strive to earn more and better their lot. Thus the government have a stable tax base.
If the govenments revenues are dependant on fossil fuel consumption, what happens if people cotton onto the fact that their tax bill can be massively reduced by increasing efficiency. You might find that for ideological reasons you see a huge drop in consumption coupled with a massive drop in government revenues. The government would then be forced to bring back payroll tax to make up the shortfall. This would likely be highly unpopular, especially with people who had committed to large capital expenditure programmes to increase their personal efficiency.
Secondly, in the UK a great many pensioners feel that they cannot afford basic heating due to the cost of gas. A great many actually CAN afford the heating, but in confusion (and a misplaced sense of saving money) they do not adequately heat their homes. Further a great many pensioners did not take the government’s offer of extra fuel benefits, as they did not want to appear to be taking from the state. With mentality like that further increases in the cost of heating will be psychologically devastating for many old people. And this is not just some abject theory. It is known fact that in the UK higher gas costs and cold winters DO increase pensioner cold related deaths.
Plus the ultimate problem lies with the way this scheme will be brought in. Anything designed and brought to fruition by a cross party political system is doomed to fail due to bartering, negotiating etc.
And then there’s the fact that the 3rd world simply won’t wear it either. Much like Koyto they’ve pointed out that they’re entitled a free pass due to historical advantage by 1st world countries.
Any attempt to impose at the border carbon taxes would in all likelihood lead to trading blocs and bilateral trade between countries not wishing to participate. The Chinese will quite happily strike bilateral deals not to impose port of entry carbon costs with anyone happy to listen. You run the risk of creating two tier world economy.
On top of this it is unlikely that you’ll ever get the whole world to agree to such a carbon tax, so it will end up being impossible (and possibly illegal if not ratified by the WTO) to impose taxes at port of entry based on CO2 emissions.
I prefer a direct handout. Much simpler. Tax all fossil fuel production/importation at a high level, and give out the tax to taxpayers as a standardized refundable tax credit. Yes, it's revenue and cost neutral - that's the prerequisite to get the ball rolling. It's also a significantly progressive tax if you consider that the rich use more energy. But it's the only way that people are going to be MOTIVATED to use less energy. We can either wait for this decision to be made for us (supply/demand or geopolitical panic to raise the price for us, and oil companies to get richer than most countries), or we can do it ourselves in preparation, and do it perdictably, slowly, steadily. With a required handout of all revenue at the end of the year back to taxpayers.
The way it works is thusly: The fact that it's revenue neutral doesn't mean it can't affect behavior. It just means that the average person doesn't see it as so much of an attack on their lifestyle. It presents them with a choice - do you want to have the newfound ability to put your kids through college, go to a fancy restaurant, build that new addition, buy a house, etc, or do you want to stay away from the filthy Bus People(and all those other choices) by using a car for all transportation? That's the decision-making process that's affected. People are handed money, and presented with a selection of choices - the fossil fuel using choice is simply priced with a bit more of its externalities(roads, police, planning, global warming, energy wars) included. People are forced to look at whether perhaps moving closer to town, insulating their house, chucking the Suburban, or installing solar panels might be a good idea. People are motivated to save money for themselves - and we give them the money to do it. Such a tax is the only acceptable way I've seen of creating a system of rational actors who are inherently lower energy in their thinking, and who aren't angry/resentful/sad about this fact.
We spend a significant amount in order that people can continue gasoline-based personal transport compared to what people actually spend on gasoline. This would merely present people with the realities of that decision on a personal level. 4 day road trip versus 7 days on a cruise ship... which is it gonna be? Right now, one of them uses more fuel per capita, and costs much less.
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You're arguing that we can't increase energy prices artificially because old people will be confused and refuse to heat their houses? I believe that the phrase I'm looking for is the skin condition on the tail wagging the entire dog. It's a bit ridiculous to base the world's energy and environmental policies on the actions of people who are mentally unfit to care for themselves.
Home heating can be vastly reduced through additional insulation - which taxing those who continue to use outdoor patio heaters can pay for.
>>> Do you really think that people will vote to increase the cost of heating and lighting their homes? <<<
Actually, yes! The vote isn't quite that simple. It's more like: Increase the cost of heating and lighting your home but also get a check for $2000 for each person in the house as a free gift from the government. You get the $2000 rebate each year. I suspect that most people think they use "less than average" amounts of energy; therefore, assuming the rebate makes the tax revenue neutral, most people could be convinced that they will get a rebate larger than their increased energy costs.
Many people were excited about the government enacting a windfall-profits tax on the oil industry. Taxing fuel could be sold as having a similar effect.
Do you really think that people will vote to increase the cost of heating and lighting their homes?
Actually, yes! The vote isn't quite that simple. It's more like: Increase the cost of heating and lighting your home but also get a check for $2000 for each person in the house as a free gift from the government. You get the $2000 rebate each year. I suspect that most people think they use "less than average" amounts of energy; therefore, assuming the rebate makes the tax revenue neutral, most people could be convinced that they will get a rebate larger than their increased energy costs.