All very good points Ron, but it doesn't look like the market believes you. The article about Saudi Arabian production cuts lists a pretty large cutback in production, yet the price of oil hasn't budged; in fact, it has been dropping for some months now.

Keith, of course the market doesn't believe me. The market believes that Saudi Arabia has over 260 billion barrels of reserves. The market believes that the Middle East has over 700 billion barrels of reserves. But when people begin to realize that Saudi reserves are dramatically overestimated, they will realize the same is true for the rest of the Middle East. This will be the bomb that, when it explodes, will shake the world. Nothing will ever be the same again when this fact becomes common knowledge.

Ron Patterson

I'm curious whether "the market" knew in advance of the crashing of other major oil fields, like Cantarell, etc. - if not then the market doesn't know dick. I find it hilarious that humans are dumb enough to believe in the goodness of herd psychology (Popular Delusions and the Madness Of Crowds). The market is dumber than 3 ugly blondes blowing 4 blondes, and no amount of wishing upon a star will replace the one time gift of oil. And that's a good thing, because capitalism (resource rape and pillage) is destroying the fricken planet! Better to take the tough medicine now, then learn to live like we belong in an ecosystem instead of rampaging over it with four-wheel monster trucks. The sooner the endless growth virus dies, the better for the future (or should I say, the less dreadful the future will be).

Spot market is not a total market.
There is no point to buy a cheap oil if there is no storage for it.

Wake me up when/if KSA would be unable to ramp up the production in response to the increasing demand (significant price increase).

Were you awake thru aug, while price surged to 78 and sa steadily cut production, and stubbornly continued to cut up to nov, when opec provided a fig leaf for an apparently reluctant sa to enact more cuts?

You could have bought dec o06 futures for $20 on 2002. Shows how much the market anticipates the future. The only change has been that long dated futures are now above the spot price.

That happened first in the Summer of 2004.

Ron, I've just come from the cold and turned the computer on for the first time today. Oil is up three bucks. Maybe a few billionaires picked up your article sometime today.

Anyway, please accept my compliments for a well-written and informative posting. You've come a long way from your early days on energyresources, baby! Keep it up.

ToilForOil, thanks for the kind words. But I really don't think my early postings on Energyresources were all that bad.

Were they???? ;-)

Ron Patterson

West Texas Crude is $56.50 (up 13% from $50) as of the evening of 30 January.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2220#comment-153441

Please read the above recap. This is the fifth time we've addressed this article since November. The last time was Saturday. Ron clearly does not understand the basic terms and therefore cannot interpret the presentations and press coverage. Today is using the term "rate" in a likewise mistaken manner. Please discount his interpretation completely. He knows nothing on this matter and his verbal diarrhea only compounds the confusion...

Remember Freddy. I'm the one who repeats things over and over!

But you know, historically speaking, he does seem to understand the part about 'Saudi Arabia' s reduction is nearly double the total cuts it agreed to make under two output accords hammered out at OPEC at meetings in October and December, The Journal said.'

Even more interestingly, while the Saudis keep talking about how they can increase production at any time (which may be true, of course), 'The latest cut means Saudi Arabia will have reduced production by about 1 million barrels per day in the past six months, The Journal said, citing an unnamed senior Saudi oil official.' which is interesting in the light of historically high prices last August. And yes, we can debate nominal price all you wish, but they were cutting production when prices were significantly higher, and they are cutting production now - as a matter of fact, the real world production cuts seem somehow unrelated to spot market prices, actually. Certainly, there could be a number of reasons for the Saudis to cut production - for example, to help prop up fellow OPEC member Iran's ailing economy. (And since we don't talk about history in terms of peak oil, we will just let that little Sunni/Shia split go without discussion.)

The major difference between today and last November is contained in the two quotes from the cited article - but as you have absolutely no desire to discuss even history in the making when discussing peak oil, feel free to save your time by not responding to me, but I think you will have a bit of a challenge contradicting that 'unnamed senior Saudi oil official.'

Good luck. We will all wait for your refutation of Saudi production figures, as it is clear that the Saudis have no knowledge or understanding of oil production.

And do note, I have not given a reason for Saudi Arabia's currently reduced production numbers (obviously, helping Iran was a joke) - I am merely noting that it is essentially beyond dispute. Also beyond dispute is that oil production peaks, and declines - and the way to recognize that decline is because less is produced. And yes, a swing producer follows different patterns, and yes, production can increase and decrease for reasons which have nothing to do with geological reality. However, no one has yet found a way to actually stop oil production from going into a geologically determined decline.

But as you do not seem to feel bound by any historical limits in discussing peak oil, please enjoy discussing how any oil producer, whether Romania or the U.S. or Norway can just increase production, since past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Should be entertaining.

Pat, Ron is well aware that the author was a KSA Security official; because we have discussed it before at TOD. We can forgive a Security Official for flubbing and confusing decline with depletion.

But i don't grant that immunity from shame to someone who daily "tries" to make authoratative statments. Since 2003 i have been correcting his bungling on a cornucopia of topics. When i last corrected him last month, i mentioned that there were about 4 dozen of his gems floating around in cyberland.

He is the self-appointed ambassador of die-off. He is the idiot that told us last week that the global population would be down to 2-billion "by perhaps 2017". He is the idiot that in 2003 declared that Peak Oil would be upon us by 2004. And 2005. And 2006. He is the idiot that said we would have the mother of all global economic Deprssions by Spring 2004.

And he never guesses. He is sure. And we can count on it.

And u want to believe this idiot knows that KSA has Peaked? The kid who filled Coca~Cola machines over there for five years? Fine. To each his own.

We're still trying to figure out whether JeffreyWT drove the honey wagon or the lunch truck. I'll get back to u on that one.

Seriously, one must understand that Demand Call varies as much as 3-mbd during a typical year. While OPEC has its published quota, it does allow some latitude to adjust for these Call guidelines from IEA and OPEC. The Call for Q1 is 86-mbd. The Demand Call for 2007Q4 is 87-mbd but will be as low as 84-mbd in the interim. There will be opportunity to within 12 months to see how the non-opec producers and KSA react. The Feb 1st quota restriction straddles one of those transitions.

As a final note, please remember that Aramco is not the only producer in KSA. When KSA or Saudi Aramco make statements, there can be as much as a 0.5mbd variance due to legacy producers and the neutral zone. When speaking of their own production or MSC, Aramco is often 0.5-mbd shy of the KSA figures.

And we continue in Watchful Waiting mode.

The personal insults are one of the problems in recent discussions - one which I am trying not to engage in, as far as possible.

The reduction quote does not seem to come from a security figure (though still possible - although you may be confusing different people, as several different Saudi sources have been making public pronouncements in this area in the last few months), but according to the article, an 'unnamed senior Saudi oil official.'

We all have our hobby horses, and to the extent you provide information to back your arguments, this expands the discussion.

As for Watchful Waiting mode, that is a well chosen phrase - and I try to be mindful of the difference between data, projections, and explanations. Generally, the current data (which has definite imprecisions) shows flat world oil production over a significant time, the projections from the last decade often seem silly when reviewed against current data, and as for the explanation why crude production is essentially flat, we will see. Though it is not a single source - the interaction between geology, above ground influences, from weather to politics, and general economic conditions all play a role.

I am very agnostic on many of the arguments here - what I find of paramount importance is what is going on now, though obviously, a dip in production for a week, a month, or a year is not clear proof of the end of the oil age - which won't happen for decades anyways. Nonetheless, the current fairly steep in percent terms decline in production from two major sources of exported oil is not something to be easily dismissed.