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Fortunately with recent developments in PV, the potential cost has come down significantly, as you have said. Because the cost of producing them is going down but the price offered to consumers hasn't come down as much, that means that the increased profit margins will increase new development and players into the market who desire to take a slice of that pie. At some point in time, the supply will be able to meet demand, and the prices will drop significantly.
Recently with companies such as NanoSolar have procured manufacturing space:
http://www.nanosolar.com/pr7.htm
NanoSolar's EROEI, according to their website, is under one month. Compare this to the EROEI on Vaccum based thin-film which are 1.5-1.7 yrs or poly/monocrystaline silicon panels at 3 yrs.
http://www.nanosolar.com/economic.htm
I haven't seen this on their website, but I do remember an article where one of the top guys at NanoSolar was saying that they're aiming at the cost of their panels to be less than $3/watt. I don't know if that was wholesale price or retail price, however.
Right now it's at least down to $4.41 for retail, as I've seen 170 watt Evergreen Solar panels at $749 each.
I believe that with large numbers of consumers having grid tied solar systems hooked to their homes that can offset a majority of the consumption, some of the stress that is placed on the grid can be taken off. (That's just me speculating, and not something I can back up with references, since the majority of TOD people are very good about backing up their claims with references.)
I'm excited about developments in solar PV even if I'm scared about developments in PO.
The potential demand is huge. I just found a english version of the of the press release (pdf). Here is one important point listed....
In 2006 the world market was around 2.6 GW. There is still a long way to reach the 150 GW or even the 300 GW. That's the reason why I think the market will characterized for quite a long time by a much bigger demand than supply.
The PV market is still at its beginning. Just take a look with google earth over any kind of city in the OECD. There are masses of buildings which can be equipped with solar roofs. After reaching grid parity this will be actually somehow mandatory.
Sure PV will not save us from the impacts tiggered by PO. Looking to Saudi-Arabia scares me as well. But we need to look forward and every step in this direction will help a little bit.
If these forecasts are valid, shouldn't be bet on the come now and stop all additional coal power plants or augmentations to existing power plants?
With respect to cost, I am a bit skeptical since it is not sufficient to bring down the costs of the solar panels. One must also bring down the costs of the inverters and other accessory equipment. From what I have seen at Solarbuzz, little or no progress has been made on these items. Of course, with very large solar generating facilities, perhaps these costs will be a small part of the overall cost. My main concern is with small installations put on residences.
From a personal persepective, I already pay extra in order to enable my utility to acquire more wind power as part of their mix. Would not most of us pay extra, even double, to support the phaseout of coal plants?
The TXU deal will, hopefully, be part of a trend, a relative greening of the utilities. The new owners, however, will still be building 3 additional plants. Any fossil fuel plants should just be part of the minimum necessary baseload to support wind, solar, and other renewables.
We need leaders with the courage and fortitude to move forward, leaders who will tell us that we need to move away from fossil energy even if there is a certain amount of blood, sweat, and tears. We need to move forward ahead of the economics.
The price of inverters has most certainly come down over the past 10 years. I did a few Google searches, and was unable to find a price history on inverters. However, I can tell you that from personal experience of purchasing inverters, that the price has certainly come down significantly in the past 10 years. You don't even see square-wave inverters any more (Thank goodness), modified sine wave inverters are dirt cheap (I've purchased 1.5KW sustained 3WK peak inverter for $100 USD) and pure sine wave inverters (which is what you would have to use in a grid tied environment) would have been absurdly expensive 10 years ago.
Most of that was due to the use of MOSFETs in inverter technology, which are substantially cheaper than prior tech used. I'm not an EE, however. (I just have nerds for friends and such tendancies myself.)
Even so, you're correct in stating that the inverters are a real barrier for solar penetration in the market. Inverters usually range around 1/3 of the cost of a solar installation. Hopefully further improvements will be made in this area.
Coal, along with nuclear, is a base-load power supplier. Very little of it is cycled on a daily basis to meet demand. Solar is a peaking power supplier, for it operates best noonish (or later or earlier depending upon the orientation).
To reduce coal usage, base load must come down considerably. Solar first and best replaces natural gas and to some extent the limited remaining oil-fired generators. To eat into coal, we will need more/better electrical storage capability, and even if that is available, the progression will be to replace oil, nat gas first before eating into coal.
We'll get there...it is just a question of how much pain is involved before we do.
Well one step is to redefine baseload, the present status quo utility definition is unacceptable. There's a lot to be gained from redoing our lifestyles based on when the most energy is available etc.
Moving away from fossil fuels isn't just a technological challenge, but also just as much or even more so a cultural one. But the way baseload is thrown around as some a priori fact, is not going to get us far.
"Well one step is to redefine baseload"
Good luck with that.
They have been talking about having computers in homes for years now, if you can have a digital programmable thermostat and irrigation controller why can't you have an electric meter that not only charges more for peak times but displays that somewhere (like on the digital thermostat)-the usage, cost, how much you could save if you turned the dryer off until later...
At this point it has to be right up in people's face to get them to conserve anything (most people, anyway)
re "Good Luck with that"
That's kind of the point of the whole site, isn't it?
I agree wholeheartedly with Brutus' point. We might pout and fuss that 'baseload electricity' is our non-negotiable demand to maintain this lifestyle, but any number of factors might jump in and interrupt the flow.. Uranium, Nat Gas, Coal or Oil supply 'complications', Grid failures, Weather events, Computer Glitches, etc etc.. It seems absolutely crucial that we start to find ways to handle electricity interruptions, and to be able to continue business and other parts of life, even if a grid failure occurs.
Clearly nuclear has some support to continue and try to hold the grid up.. but I don't trust the High-Finance Power Industry, the Poisonous Supply and Waste, and the Complex chain that the system depends on for massive, central power supplies, when gangable diverse technologies are available and structurally safer and more democratic.
Well goinggreen, good luck to us all, but if you really want to change the electricity system, you should challenge utility thinking once in awhile.
I was looking into that a while back & it's definitely all that 'other stuff' that gets to be a problem as the cost of the panels come down. In an off grid system (i.e., with batteries), PV modules make up 50-60% of the total installed cost (solarbuzz numbers); installation is around 20% and the inverter is roughly 7%. The batteries & charge controller are 25%. If you deduct out the battery & charge controller cost for a grid tie system then PV modules make up 67-80% of the total cost. So cutting the cost of the PV modules dramatically (say from $5/peak watt to $1/pw) would make a nice impact on the overall cost. At that point, the installation cost gets to be the next biggest chunk.
I would encourage everyone here to pick up a copy of "Solar Revolution" by Travis Bradford (2006). Bradford evaluates solar from the financial community's perspective and concludes that the days of the solar PV boom are not 20 or 30 years from now, but right now. Some of his key points:
- The problem that many analysts make when comparing the cost of PV to that of coal or gas is to neglect the fact that PV is distributed generation located right where the user is, which eliminates distribution losses and costs. Also, PV electricity production largely occurs during times of peak demand, so its output is inherently more valuable that a base losd plant runing 24/7.
- The key indicator to watch is not portion of current generation from renewables, which is regularly trotted out to show how insignicant renewables are compared to coal, gas, and nukes. It is much more important to look at the renewable portion of each year's new capacity additions. By some measures, wind actually was the largest in terms of new capacity addition of any power type in the US in 2006. In California, PV was actually a fairly significant portion of the new capacity addition for 2006.
- When evaluating what new capacity to add, there are a lot of huge problems with gas, coal, and nukes. From the financial community's perspective, the biggest problems with all three are the extreme risks and uncertainty of costs. What are your construction costs, fuel costs, emissions compliance costs? Can you even get a permit to build? Is there even going to be any natural gas avaiable for power generation? How long will it take to finance, permit, and build?
- Solar PV is unique in the power generation world in that you know all your costs, virturally to the penny, at the start of the project. You make power for a guaranteed period of 25 years with no uncertainty or risk. It is hard to overstate the importance of this fact. When you take risks out of the equation, the financial community can do what it does best, creative financial engineering. What you are seeing now in PV are offers for Power Purchase Agreements, where a financial investor will pay 100% of the costs to install a system and sell the output to the site customer for a guaranteed discount to the utility. Financial developments like this will have a huge impact on the ability expand the PV industry.
I can tell you from personal experience that the PV industry is absolutely booming here in California. My company's business doubled in 2006 compared to 2005. Sure PV is still in early adopter phase and starting from a small base, but at the rate its been growing it won't take long. Bradford believes that in just a couple decades, wind and solar will absolutely dominate each years new capacity additions.
Solaris, who do you work for?
I'm VP of a PV design and installation company in Southern California, and I'll have to leave it at that.
Why the secrecy?
There is a limited apllicability to solar - it is only useful for a few hours IF it is not cloudy during those hours. Solar will only ever prove useful for extra power, such as recharging the batteries of an electric car, or ones in the basement. If enough people add solar to their home, the local electric utility will have another 'hole' in its delivery requirements, one that is random. What will happen is that it will demand the right to charge you for the unused electricity, thus you'll be paying twice. The reason is that they can't vary their generation quickly, and have no means of predicting what load they must supply, so they must supply the normal, which costs them money.
James Gervais
James;
Respectfully, I don't think you know what you are talking about. Ask the people who have them if they think that those 'few hours' is proof of Solar's Unreliability, or exactly the opposite. PV actually DOES work on cloudy days.. it's just directly proportional to the (right freq's of) light available. Yes, the Sun goes down every day.. and it also comes up every day.. (Oregonians will have to just take our word here)
Any utility that tries to charge for unused KWH's will come to see how well they can convince those on the fence to start getting solar-security on their roofs, too, and commence to lose market-share. No, I suspect more utilities will start to create solar banks as part of their own generation security, since, as it has been repeatedly mentioned, those Few Hours of Sunlight are unsurprisingly also the hours of peak loads for Business and for Air Conditioning.. perfect correlation, and causation!
Make Hay while the Sun Shines.
Bob