The Oil Drum

Yeah, GW has been on the agenda since the early 80's at least, and the first time PO was mentioned in the mainstream was Campbell and Laherrere's 1997 article in the Scientific American (if memory serves). OTOH, GW has only come to be more generally accepted after it must have been clear to some people that resource depletion would soon become a serious problem.

My problem is that it is just terribly conspiratorial to think that all those scientists who have come to the conclusion that climate change is a real and rather imminent threat could just be useful idiots serving the agenda of those who have, for most of the past thirty years, attempted to deny there ever was a problem. Then again, from a certain angle Sanders' thesis doesn't sound totally fantastic. If he could explain how it could work without some sort of conspiracy I might think of it as at least possible.

some don't buy the whole GW thing.

some don't buy it's a CO2 thing..

I see climate change, I also differ on what the outcome may be.

How cold does it need to get for the next ice age.

the answer is, it doesn't need to get colder. All thats missing mainly is MOISTURE in the winter. Recall any huge snowfalls and snow storms this year. How man flash floods in the US and across the world. Our Hurricane season last year was not up to predictions, though the Pacific got POUNDED by huge and numerous Typoons. The formation of hurricanes and how they get their energy is a "theory" about warm water etc. This theory may not be correct. Observations show increase in strength when moving into cold waters, which flies in the face of the warmer waters provide the energy. Hurricanes and tornado's, we have much to be learn about them. And that danged pesky formation in the eye's of class 5 that looks all the world like a geomectric pattern.

Have some time visit http://www.meru.org/ there is a thirty minute video on googlevideo. Up until recently the series was up, but they must have objected and put up the "teaser". Its not 'religious" per se, its about how the original hebrew text of Genisis is much more than words, much much more.

The math guys here should get a real kick out of this. Everyone will, its pretty remarkable what this man has discovered.

Quid Clarius Astris
Ubi Bene ibi patria

Marco, not so dumb as all that. Without the tinfoil (and me, I love the stuff), it is nevertheless so that GW is scientifically complex, can legitimately, within a certain window, be argued about, etc. etc. It is also clearly an issue of the Commons, which most ordinary people like (even if for. ex. Siberians might prefer to sunbathe more..); it is, for many, experienced (or felt to be experienced) in a proximal way; it induces a kind of shared or blanket guilt; etc. It has a lot going for it as an important issue. So even without deliberate manipulation or ‘conspiracy’ GW distracts from PO, or camouflages it, PO being tied up to big biz interests, international politics, war, etc. in a pointed way that many would prefer not to look at. PO may have short term devastating effects; GW are the natural conditions around us, it is a backdrop, a general ‘force’ as I heard someone say the other day, and is not related to precise evil doing, even if it is generally seen as the outcome of human action - human collective action, that is. So far, GW has not killed any Iraqis.

Would Al Gore have made a movie about energy use, production, and distribution? (I mean specifically not a scary movie about PO.) I think not.

Noisette (same person as Noizette.)