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It seems as though the 'continuous improvement' MBA mentality can only come up with 'high speed' rail at exponentially ruinous costs. Personally, I don't want to go much faster than 100 mph. At that speed you can still make some sense of the scenery instead of being reduced to either watching a blur or the onboard DVD.
Why high speed? To compete with air; to 'waste' as little time as possible; to increase passenger/mile/hr and so on. Competing with air over long distances is not economically doable, but shorter hauls can at 100 mph. Longer trains increase capacity just as well as shorter ones going faster. As far as wasting time, I guess all scenic tourism is now a waste of human endeavour?
I found that the high speed trains in France went too fast for my liking and as I recall the Spanish Talgo trains, when in France, went slower in the daytime and fast at night. ?? I was given the excuse of enjoying the scenery, but that could have been cover for a scheduling situation. Regardless, nobody complained.
It is probably more energy efficient to have more trains, built better and enjoyable to be on, than to rattle along in a crowded budget can, hoping the journey is soon over, as we currently do in aircraft. The accountants who currently run the world will probably give us the latter. Who will want to live near a track with a 300 mph ballistic missile passing by - nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong....
Rail will be back. Bravo.
Right on. Ever ride AMTRAK??
I personally would be very happy with 60mph trains that stayed on schedule and went to every fairly large city in the country. There used to be such a thing in this country.
"There used to be such a thing in this country." Well, yes. But once car and jet travel became cheap, no one wanted to pay for train service any more. They wanted somebody else to pay for it. They still do. That's why we have to sit around waiting for governments to take care of it. Which is why we're discussing it here instead of riding on actual trains. And why our grandchildren may still be just discussing it.
And why our grandchildren may still be just discussing it
Perhaps, as they bicycle to work.
Best Hopes,
Alan
PS: You missed the long list of GOVERNMENT subsidies and direct actions that made car (less mention was made of jet) travel cheaper.
Hint: It was government actions and not some mythical "quasi-Free Market" that changed America's Urban form from ~1950 to ~1970.
Well, yes. The whole transportation and "tourism" sector is obscenely oversubsidized. OTOH, car drivers at least pay towards the capital cost of the vehicle, major roadbeds and major construction, many major bridges and tunnels, insurance, fuel, and all repairs. Urban-rail riders pay maybe 1/3 or less of "operating costs", which really means 1/3 or less of insurance (perhaps), fuel, drivers, and repairs. The taxpayers usually pick up the vehicles, roadbed, stations, major refurbishing, driver pensions, and so on, even though only a tiny minority of them actually have any conceivable use for the facilities. At least the vast and overwhelming majority of the taxpayers (over-)use the highways, even though the subsidies guarantee that there are many more highways than would be economically optimal.
Perhaps even more importantly, if there's really such a big 'energy descent' in the works that our grandchildren must "bicycle to work" - i.e. it's not, as now, just a choice - then we need to begin cutting the transportation sector down to size yesterday. That can start with honest billing throughout - especially in aviation-and-conventions-and-tourism, which, though it's not the biggest slice, is such a powerful symbol of superfluous, mind-boggling profligacy; and there could be huge follow-on savings from cutting down the vast infrastructure of energy-guzzling hotels and the like. OTOH, if that much descent is not in the works, cutting transportation down to the optimum is still good economics. Either way, but given honest billing, then if people want trains, or they don't, so be it.
BTW, if that big a descent is in the works, I suppose it would be well for people living in areas supported by little but "tourism" to prepare themselves to make a living at some activity other than the likes of changing bedsheets in hotels. I can't imagine what NOLA could possibly do to earn a living in circumstances that straitened...
Oh, and people who could afford it did everything they could to live in the suburbs long before 1950. One of the perennial exhibits at the local (model) train show concerns advertisements and documents from the Chicago & Northwestern Railroad complaining rather bitterly about the competition from high-wheel bicycles in the 1890s - had the "safety" bicycle not been invented in time, we might not have bicycles as they would have been banned at the behest of the railroads. Away from the crack trains on main routes like Chicago to New York, a lot of service was that slow, slovenly, and unreliable even back then. The railroads were massively subsidized, with every-other-section of land along their routes, and dissipated much of the booty on executive high living. Not so different from now, actually. (There are many reasons why, as you travel west of the Mississippi, and until you reach the Left Coast, you still encounter the lingering remains of a tremendous, visceral hatred of the railroads.) Anyway, the postwar mortgage subsidies and the orgy of Interstate-building merely democratized an already-existing reality.
I think you just said that Out West people hate railroads because once upon a time there were Robber Barons.
Hunh? The very same people love Deadeye Dick and his sidekick Chimpy.
A few facts to disturb your ideology certainities. But not to denate, your mind is clearly set in concrete.
The larger Urban rail systems are, the more efficient they are. DC Metro and BART cover ~80% of operating expenses (NOT 1/3rd) with fares and could, with a fair amount of ease cover 100%.
But it would be sub-optimum for them to operate at breakeven because of *ALL* of the unpaid for negatives of auto transportation. They would have fewer riders at 100% cost recovery, but the negatives associated increased auto use make that a very bad social choice.
The roads & highways take land (often as much as 20%), off of the property tax rolls, and distort the urban form compeltely. Rail never takes even 1%, and inter-city rail pays property taxes. A MAJOR plus for any city; to put more land to useful purpose (even parks are useful) inctead of wasting *SO* much on roads & highways.
Thanks for the snide remark about New Orleans. One can tell the loving spirit and true character of a man when you see a man that kicks someone in the ass after they have slipped and fallen (or rather pushed down and pummeled to a pulp with multiple broken bones by the US Army and US Gov't). It reveals *SO* much about the inner person !
New Orleans is still a major port, operating at about 93% of pre-K levels, still a major rail hub, still has two medical schools (in what is now a city of less than 300,000), a major food manufacturer, a center for the oil & gas industry, etc.
I wish justice rather than mercy for you.
Alan
The highway system is one of the most massively subsidized government works projects in the U.S. The majority of funding comes straight out of our property taxes, income taxes and sales taxes. Only 35% of all federal, state and local expenditures for highways are paid for by gas taxes. Local streets are even more heavily subsidized. So the more you drive, the more subsidy you get. No wonder car travel is cheap. Not to mention externalities like pollution, congestion, oil wars, global warming, etc.
The airline industry has rolled up a cumulative loss over its entire history. Since 9/11 the industry has experienced two dozen Chapter 11 bankruptcy filings, five liquidations, and $35 billion in cumulative losses.
There is a real holier than thou undercurrent on this site that believes anyone who wants to get somewhere in a short amount of time is an unenlightened fool. You know, some of us aren't retired and don't have all day to putz around, and if it's the difference between a two hour trip and a six hour trip, it might be the difference between seeing our loved ones frequently and hardly seeing them at all. Some people don't want to be forced to "enjoy" the scenerey, they just want to get where they are going. If you want to see the sights, may I suggest you bike out and really see them, rather than simply glance as you ride on by?
Post-Peak Oil, you will likely see your distant loved ones less, due to economic constraints.
Having a choice better trading off time for $; perhaps on some trips you will make one choice and the other choice on other trips. Is choice a bad thing ?
In the case in point, Edmonton & Calgary, about 175 miles apart, air xervice is marginal and a top speed of 110 mph and an average speed of 88 mph (2 hours city center to city center ) certainly competes quite well with driving AND flying.
Best Hopes,
Alan
Not to presume to speak for others, but I think the point is that slower rail is more likely to get built for reasons of cost. If so, it might become a case of being able to see distant relatives at all... or not.
Hard to imagine there being enough money and resources around to build and maintain 300mph bullet trains to everywhere.
I believe that true high speed rail is down our list of priorities and will not be suitable for many routes for decades to come.
OTOH, "faster than driving" rail is often quite doable at reasonable prices (see Edmonton-Calgary).
Best Hopes,
Alan
I'd be happy with "as fast as driving" or "nearly as fast as driving." Why? Well, when I'm driving, I have to pay attention to the road (not as if everybody else does, but oh well) and as a result I cannot read a book on the way to my destination. (Or do something more mind-numbing such as watching a show/movie, playing a game, etc.)
Another benefit is that it's not a potentially deadly scenario if I were to fall asleep in transit. :) (That's something that my body likes to do.)
Now folks, what we need here is a range of choices. For those of you who just want to get there fast and don't care to stare at the scenery, might I suggest a cruise missile? Or, if you are young and can take the G's, an ICBM? The food is lousy and the stewardesses are nowhere, but, ya don't get speed for nothin'.