My vote is still for the next 8 months. Sometime between NOW and January 2008.

Two main reasons -

1) Housing market meltdown - massive number of resets OCT-DEC 07 (did I say massive!)

2) Oil prices (contingent on KSA response before June) and Hurricane season

You could also add, evaporating USD exchange rate, hidden inflation numbers, stock market bubble records(US, Canada, China, etc) and skyrocketing personal and national debts.

The next few months will be exciting in a terrifying way.

"housing market meltdown"

It hasn't "melted" very much so far. And the softness that we've already seen has not systemically affected anything. Why? I thought this (paraphrased) comment by R. Doll of BlackRock ($400B hedge fund) was interesting: "...exports are up double digits, and exports are larger than housing...". Many people have talked about housing, but few have talked about this larger segment. People have a tendency to focus on the spectacular but fail to keep perspective sometimes.

"oil prices"

This quote from Ritholtz was also interesting: "Earnings trends...energy companies up 64%...financials up 15%...excluding those two sectors, net income has actually fallen 3.59% on a year-over-year basis".

While everyone has focused on housing, energy is preparing to blind-side the market. Wall street is solely focused on "liquidity" driving the market -- they need to be looking at the black "liquidity" that gets pumped out of the ground. And yet today appears to be the day to call alternative energy a "bubble"!

I agree...the wavefront of housing market collapse is not yet publicly apparent...it will be soon enough.

And Oil will trump the deck.

Game, set, match. 2007 will be pivotal.

A orderly declining dollar could keep exports rising and jobs OK, and therefore housing from actually "collapsing". Pimco's Bill Gross calculated that the Fed would need to lower mortgage rates by only 1.2% to re-balance the housing market. So housing "bears" may continue to be frustrated.

This seems sort-of like the Westexas/RR debate -- the bears may be right, but for the wrong reason. :-)

W: How is your orderly declining US dollar going to affect US gasoline prices?

Gas prices will soar based on supply/demand, currency translation will probably have little effect (personally, I think the dollar is going to rise anyway relative to assets).

I'm just saying that the conventional wisdom over the past couple of years was that the housing bub was going to kill the economy. This started with "The Economist" a while back. After being wrong for a long time about that, now (most?) bears, I believe, have shifted to the "liquidity driving the market higher" argument -- which I feel is a "capitulation" at what is now probably a market top.

Anyway, the "earnings trends" quote above clearly flies in the face of the liquidity argument. Is "private equity" going to buy every non-energy non-financial public asset in order to "re-structure" the bottom line with debt? I hardly think so.

W: Can't agree with you on the US dollar, but you might be right re the housing bubble.Few have commented on the effect of dramatically increased immigration to the USA in the next 10-15 years. This will provide a prop to housing, while somewhat countering the boomer retirement bulge. The added benefit for the investor-controlled political system is dramatically lower real wages.

OK now we're loggin'

Gas prices will soar based on supply/demand,

It's a shooting gallery. The US economy is lined up in the crosshairs with several shooters waiting their turn. If US consumers change their habits markedly the companies dependent on that income sector suffer . Hence their employees/economy/housing market and so on. Look at the story on Ford and GM this month. I believe the April sales numbers were termed 'awful'. They need to adapt yesterday.

High gasoline price is the bullet today. Score one hit to the automakers. The refinery bottleneck is taking the pressure off WTI (and the world market) for now. When the refiners improve ultilization then
The tale of Two Crudes
comes back into play. Crude price becomes the bullet. World crude market comes home to America again. Inflation of everything crude is made into. Since the US imports and uses the product high on the per capita list it's currency will have to take a hit. Rinse, repeat and wait for demand destruction. Great.

How hard will America fight to keep things just like they are today? Will the paradigm ever shift in time? Asked another way, how important are those snicker doodles, mutiple daily trips to the mini-mart, and that high speed en masse migration to and from the entertainment event. How much will we be willing to pay of our blood and treasure before we change? B/C however much that is, that is exactly what Peak Oil will extract from us.

I predict (1) the biggest ugliest recession in several generations due to various factors mentioned, (2) followed by a ramp up in solar projects and battery powered vehicles that will essentially fix our energy situation forever. There is some additional risk on the downside, if politicians behave badly, or if the public panics in some unpredictable way.

The battery technology for the cars will be ready (A123 and Altairnano) in a couple of years. Folks are overly-pessimistic about replacing our "oil-consuming capital stock" (i.e. Hirsch Report).

Altairnano is a fraud and VERY bad joke. Expect zero from them. Not enough time to go into the details.

A123 is for real, but it is a MAJOR step from handtools to EVs !

I prefer EVs that can operate indefinitely WITHOUT ANY BATTERIES AT ALL, and are much more mechanically efficient that GMs Volt for example.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/CarrolltonStreetcarAp...

Best Hopes,

Alan

What makes you say fraud?

Several things. They have changed their name multiple times (gold mining a few times), and they still list their industry as "Drug - Other" in Yahoo financial listing.

Endless money pit for decades.

No real products shipped (some joint PR with other fraud companies), no serious partnerships with real companies (A123 has these).

Etc.

Alan

Couple of points:

* According to investor relations only 1 person from the "old days" is still connected with the company. The company has completely changed from the old mining technology days. I've read every 10-K going back to 1997 to understand Altair's story, and it actually makes sense. The key event was when Altair bought the original nano technology patents from BHP Billiton, and subsequently hired away 18 employees (including PhDs) from BHP's research facility in Reno in 2000.

* Altairnano has partnerships with Alcoa's AFL division, Sherwin Wllliams, AES Corp ($14B utility company, which has a small equity interest in Altairnano, and one of their VPs in on Altairnano's board of directors).

* Altair's CEO, Dr. Gotcher, worked for Avery Dennison and led Avery's teams that created and commercialized the Duracell On-Cell tester battery label.

* Although Altair has only shipped 10 battery packs to Phoenix for their electric truck. Altair plans to ship 200 of them in 2007.

* Yahoo's profile information is extremely misleading. One of Altair's applicatons for their nano Titanium dioxide is medical.

(I do own shares)

Their PR releases are quite misleading (all I have investigated), I REALLY question their technology and what I have seen of partnerships (Sherwin Williams was interested in super small white paint particles, not batteries) pales in comparision to A123.

I do not like the company as an investment and I discount every (misleading) PR release.

I have written the company off as being of any interest. A long history of fraud and fleecing investors under 8 different names.

I would NEVER plan for the future based on promises from them.

Best Hopes for Reality Based Planning,

Alan

So far everything that I've investigated has turned out legit. Altairnano is trying to make progress in 4 divisions, each of which involves their nano Ti technology. This makes following the PRs perhaps difficult, but not misleading. I counted 9 analysts on the last conference call (including Cowen & Co., W R Hambrecht, Thomas Weisel, Merriman, LPL Financial, etc). I don't think that they'd waste their time on a fraud.

That old stuff about different names, mining interests, and mining technology was divested and eliminated years ago.

The battery specs are for 30% lower energy density than conventional Li Ion at room temperature, but in all other respects is far superior. In my opinion, it's superior to A123.

*IF* you believe their specs.

I do not.

You apparently do,

Best Hopes that I am wrong,

Alan

This seems sort-of like the Westexas/RR debate -- the bears may be right, but for the wrong reason. :-)

I was probably too optimistic regarding remaining Saudi reserves. I argued that Saudi Arabia, in 2006, was at the same stage of depletion that Texas started declining. It now looks like Saudi Arabia, in 2006, was more depleted than Texas was when it started declining, which suggests that the Saudi decline rate will be sharper than the Texas decline rate, which of course will have a highly detrimental effect on net oil exports.

As gasoline and overall energy prices increase, the decline in the market value of outlying suburban areas will accelerate. I would think that areas dependent on discretionary spending will suffer even more, e.g., in the county where Las Vegas is located, one out of every thirty homes is now in foreclosure proceedings.

From the Texas/Lower 48 article we did on year ago: http://static.flickr.com/55/145186318_27a012448e_o.png

A friend went off to Vegas last week with her boyfriend. I joked about her coming back married, which she insisted would not happen. Well, I got an email this morning that they're moving to Vegas and have found a huge house (five bedrooms but they have no kids) to live in and they're going to get married. Even before "haha, I told you that you'd get married in Vegas" popped in my head, the thought "OMG, I can't think of a worse place to move to now, you're going to get screwed (and I'm not talking about in the Honeymoon Suite)" jumped through my head like a frog on a hot plate.

The attraction of Vegas as a place to live full time for those not directly connected with the gambling industry is just beyond me.

Though I have to wonder, when things start to get bad, will Vegas, being built on discretionary income, fold or will people flock there in even greater numbers out of desperation to win big and for some escapism.

I worked in LV last summer, and when we'd drive past the Strip from a distance, it just looked like a (once and future) ghost-town to me. Packed full of people, construction cranes everywhere. I had talked to an electrician who was working on a new billion-dollar hotel.. all I could see was one of those Hollywood Western Towns, all paper-thin Facades, inches away from blowing over with the next good gust.

Job paid great, and bought me a chunk of PV panels and support Hdw. Looks like I'm not on poker this summer.. darn, I could use a few more panels.

Bob

Escapism takes many forms though. A nature walk through the woods could be viewed as escapism too.

I agree about Vegas though. What do these two do for a living anyways?

She is a client representative for a pet supply company. It involves lots of travel so she might end up keeping the same job despite moving across the country. Vegas likely has nearly as good domestic air connections as Atlanta does.

I don't know what he does for a living but I know he is big into gambling on just about anything. She believes that he is good at it and his winnings exceed his loses. I suspect his winnings only exceed the loses she knows about but who knows, there are some people who are able to get ahead in gambling but they're an extreme minority. I suspect they only are able to do it because they're going up against people who don't know better rather than casinos. The local poker tournament or sports betting is very different that the big guys who have all the numbers hashed out by actuaries and statisticians. If he is moving there thinking of Vegas as the gambler's paradise, they're probably going to be in a heap of trouble quickly.

It is just such a strange thing to do but she also recently bought a large SUV so it's not like trying to explain why this is a bad idea would do any good.

Your debate with RR is probably the #1 TOD classic. I believe that you will be proven right (after the necessary caveats regarding non-geological restrictions on output and shifts in oil field technology producing one-time gains). Peak Oil timing, like market timing, is very hard to do.

I expect to be amazed at how "generic" suburbia will adjust to gas prices. There is simply so much wasted driving out there. I agree that "discretionary dependent" suburbia will be the canary in the coalmine. Nevada may, though, benefit from gov't mega $$$ poured into CSP solar, PV solar, holy-cow solar, and anything-else-we-can-think-of solar projects. Of course the public or politicians may panic in some unpredictable way anyway.

WT;
The typical CERA line about improved recovery techniques seems to me that we've simply engineered better gangplanks on which to perch out on the 'Overshoot' of the curve and marvel at how far down we don't think we are going to fall..

There is an interesting dynamic involved with U.S. exports - as the dollar sinks, they become more attractive. But one of the major categories where U.S. exports are concentrated is aircraft - it is very much open to debate whether aircraft demand will actually be increasing in the next few years.

The 787 is selling INCREDIABLY well ! (and the rival Airbus A350 fairly poorly, in part due to lagging technology).

A main selling point is that the 787 is promised to be 20% more fuel efficient than the 767 it replaces. And Boeing routinely exceeds promises.

And a 737 replacement based on improved 787 technology, is rumored to be waiting only for better engines.

Significantly more fuel efficient a/c will have a large replacement market for decades, even if the total market shrinks some.

After the 787 technology, the last foreseeable boost in fuel economy will be a flying wing. B-2 technology (also made by Boeing).

Best Hopes for Boeing,

Alan

And the A380 seems to be slow in getting going. I cannot help but wonder if Airbus made an incredibly bad bet on that thing...

Airbus A380

Poor strategy, poorly executed.

AB was incrediably jealous of the 747 cash cow at Boeing (high margins w/o competition in the sector). Plus AB is not really a commerical company, but a partially gov't owned and heavily subsidized industry.

So they *HAD* to have "bigger & better", with nationalistic pride and grabbing Boeing profits & prestige major factors.

Boeing argued that the market was going "point to point" rather than "hub & spoke", with shorter travel times and fewer miles flown to get from A to B driving this. The residual hub to hub market could not support enough a/c to justify an all new design. And the structural weight issues with a complete double deck a/c would cut performance.

A major design flaw of thh A380 is that they wanted an a/c that could be expanded easily, so they put on an oversized wing. The current A380-800 wing could be easily adapted to a alrger A380-900 (IMHO a apaper airplane that will never fly). Since wing width is limited to 80 m (decades ago, Boeing, McDonald Douglas and Airbus told airports to prepare for a/c that fit inside an 80 m x 80 m box), this meant a relatively stubby and inefficient wing that weighs more than it has to for the A380-800.

Airbus also assumed that major airports could not add runways (hence needing larger a/c) but could add larger terminals and taxiways, etc. LAX (world's largest origination & Destination airport) refused to spend the ~$1 billion to properly adapt to the A380 and spent much less on a "make do" arrangement that will NOT appeal to most pax.

Boeing has come with an improved 747 design that, with the 777F, has captured 100% of the large a/c freighter market (all A380F sales canceled). This market is substantial and still growing. The 747-8F is also more fuel efficient than the 747-400F (15% from memory). Four VVIP passenger versions have been sold in the Middle East and 20 pax 747-8s to Lufthansa. Boeing may end up selling more 747-8s than Airbus does A380-800s !

Airbus also updated the design software in France but not in Germany for the A380 deisgn. This created a MASSIVE snafu with wiring that has delayed some deliveries by two years (and upset customers !).

Add the euro at $1.36 (it was $0.935 when Bush took office), the proposed A350 that is "a day late and a euro short" of the 787 and I would NOT own EADS stock !

Best Hopes for Boeing,

Alan

Not that I care about either Boeing or Airbus much, but the Airbus strategy of high capacity passenger aircraft remains very defensible - the number of landing slots at most major airports is not going to increase, for example, so being able to fly more passengers within a slot is a way to increase airline revenue.

Another defensible aspect of the strategy was long range travel - the A380 was essentially seen as point to point transport between Singapore and Frankfurt, for example. Again, one flight with essentially the same costs as a smaller capacity aircraft means more airline revenue with a full aircraft.

Defensible is not quite the same as brilliant, and poor execution ruins even brilliant strategies. It was a gamble, one that Airbus is certainly not winning right now.

On the other hand, I don't think the airline industry has that much of a future anyways, as noted below.

the number of landing slots at most major airports is not going to increase

It is easier/cheaper to create slots by increasing the size of the smaller a/c than the largest. Fly three A320 or A321s instead of four A319s between two cities daily for example.

The most slot constrained airport in the world is Narite, Japan. One long runway when the A380 was launched. A rice farmer died and his heirs FINALLY sold out (Japan has no eminent domain) and a short runway was built with a green painted 250 m segment on the other side of another rice farm.

When that rice farmer dies, they hope to build a long runway, conencting the two segments.

Thus no Japanese sales of the A380.

A380 was essentially seen as point to point transport between Singapore and Frankfurt, for example

Both FRA and SIA are major hubs. Of course, hubs are destinations as well. But which is more appealing if one lives in Berlin or Munich and wants to travel to Singapore (or Manila) ? Direct flights on a 787-8 or commuting to FRA , transfering, flying to Singapore on an A380 (and perhaps transfering again for a flight to Manila) ?

Emirates is built on offering the option of taking a 777 from Berlin to Dubai, transfering, and taking a 777 or A380 from Dubai to Manila or Singapore.

There is a market for A380 size a/c, it is just not a very large market (as Boeing quite publically said long before the launch of the A380).

If world oil production drops 20%, I would expect aviation use to drop by 15% or so (home heating and auto commuting consumption would decline more than 20% IMHO). You expect aviation oil use to decline by more than the global average.

It will take at least till 2030 to replace half of the existing fleet with 787 technology a/c IMHO.

Best Hopes for Boeing exports, we will need them !

Alan

I thought that Airbus just had double demonstration flights to JFK/LAX with the A380? Lufthansa managed the JFK and AirBus did the LAX without paxs.

Boeing maybe exporting 787s, and that will be good for the Boeing management's bottom line. However look at the source of the components: Japan, Europe etc. Seattle will "snap" the stuffed sub-assemblies together in around 5 days. The value added is overseas as are the bulk of the jobs.

More OT, the 787 will be 20% more fuel efficient. The sub-assemblies are being flown hither and jon on 747s. At what point will the fuel savings offset the fuel used by the transports? I am not concerned with dollars saved thru speed, those dollar bills can't be stuck in the ground and turn into more crude oil.

It seemed too complex to actually discuss - will the need to wring every last drop of fuel out a plane be balanced by the cost of buying a new plane if the availability of fuel sinks dramatically, or the price increases to the point of truly bankrupting airlines to the point that the airlines no longer function?

Boeing will likely do very well into the near future selling efficient aircraft, but the middle to long term is much harder to predict. In other words, how large will the world's aviation industry be in 10 years, considering climate change/fuel shortfalls?

In my own personal view, the passenger/cargo aviation industry was to a major extent equivalent to the nuclear industry - both creations of the Cold War, true dual purpose technologies. How do you think hundreds of thousands of soldiers were supposed to arrive in Europe before and during WWIII? TWA and Pan Am is the simple answer, along with the other American airlines.

Our world is not as simple as its portrayal in printed words or on TV screens. On the other hand, the Cold War is pretty much over at this point, so this is just history - just like TWA and Pan Am, which seemed to fade away as the Cold War itself did.

Remember that oil exporters also buy a/c (see Emirates).

And the high value of air travel makes it likely that it will see smaller proportional declines than oil for home heating or commuting to work via car.

A 20% (23% when delivered is my guess) savings in fuel per seat-mile plus a 25% contraction in the industry (with air travel being a higher priority use), make for a decent new a/c market when world oil production is down to, say, 65 million b/day from today's ~85 million.

Certainly. the 787 was the right move for Boeing !

Best Hopes,

Alan

PS; A "go slow" a/c that cruises at, say, 350 mph, is another possible twist on technology for better fuel economy post-Peak Oil. New engines and wings would be required for such a concept.

My own guess is that the market will be better for smaller planes. A large plane is only economical if you fill all of the seats. If you can only fill half of the seats for a given route, then you lose money bigtime.

With smaller planes, an airline will have more flexibility in running more or fewer flights as the demand changes.

The 350mph type of aircraft is an interesting idea, and would be a natural fit for regional airlines where the flight time isn't that great to begin with in comparison to the time spent on takeoff/approach/taxiing/etc.

Let's just say that I think the number of passengers flying world wide in 10 years will very significantly lower than it is today - 66% or 75% or 90% lower.

Those nations with oil (or access to oil, like Singapore) are much more likely to dominate air traffic - the same way I expect nations with access to natural gas to dominate the fertilizer industry.

Fertilizer is a higher value product than LNG, by many measures.

We are still oriented to keeping our current systems running, hence the massive investment in LNG or in fuel efficient aircraft, and not rail. I don't believe it will be possible to keep such fossil fueled systems functioning at the same scale as today, at peak. This conflict is pretty much at the core of my interest in peak oil. Can we change before circumstances cause change anyways? At least in the case of America, the answer seems to remain no.

British Airways has announced that the propose to invest £2billion (about $4 billion) in renewing an expanding their long haul fleet. As De Gaulle put it when Johnston bombed Hanoi "The worst war to wage is the war on stupidity". Long haul is travel is the most price elastic transport segment. Mainly tourist traffic, it's price elasticity is about 2, I.i.e. a 10% increase in fares causes a 20% drop in traffic. Let's suppose that fuel prices double. That's 25% on fares and -50% on traffic. Sure airlines in oil exporting countriees will compete very aggressively but the likes of the large western airlines face very, very rough times. And the pension funds are already in heavy deficit.

Bring back Propellors which have a fuel efficiency much greater than jets.

from the WSJ, April 28

One puzzling aspect of yesterday's report was exports, which declined 1.2% in the first three months of the year, compared with a rise of 10.6% in the fourth quarter of last year.

The counterbalance to the housing weakness is now itself weakened.