My god, man, read the numbers! It's not even a 10% solution if we use ALL the arable land! If we reduce the arable land to a more reasonable value, say 20% of total arable, then we have 48 minutes of generating capacity per day for ONE power station, nevermind all the rest of Senegal's power stations. In other words, the use of vegetable oils is so tiny that it does not matter for the vast majority of Senegal's citizens. (And this does not even go into the fact that most oilseed's are processed for food in Africa to provide the necessary basic fats for fat-deficient diets.)

I also never suggested that they would be better off without electricty. What I said was your suggestion was lunacy of the most ignorant, uninformed sort and it is. Senegal needs help and it needs more damned help than a few sesame seed presses can give it. If the rest of the word gave a damn we'd be building solar power plants in Senegal (and other poor nations) like those that have recently been built in California.

However, the silence on that front is deafening. Mitigation? Don't make me laugh.

Ghawar Is Dying
The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function. - Dr. Albert Bartlett

If we could just figure out a way to harvest the oil from the faces of teenagers as illustrated in Kentucky Fried Movie. ;) Internal Combustion Engines are so incredibly inefficient, they're not worth bothering with. The only game in town, in my opinion, is solar. I don't care if it's intermittant or not. Tell me why I need to run my applicances at NIGHT in a post-collapse world?

Thank you, Alan, for a voice of sanity here. Oilseed for power? Absurd!!

Hydropower is another option in Africa and one we should be assisting with, precisely to get them OFF of petroleum as we hit peak and decline begins.

Ghawar Is Dying
The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function. - Dr. Albert Bartlett

The grand Inga at 44GW installed capasity should definitely materialize - absolutely.

But Norway has 35 GW installed hydro-capasity, and here are only 4,5 million people, and we want more .......

Africa is at 800 million pluss - and very large and distributed. Regardless Inga must be commenced - it will yield 2,5 times the three Gorges dams.

All this just to put Inga in its correct shelf. Btw Inga is the last really big possible hydro-station on this planet

I am on some DIY energy lists. Lists and sites that talk about making your own Windturbines out of a car wheel spindle, Bearings, Disk Brake rotor. And a few magnets. Like

http://www.fieldlines.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/awea-wind-home/messages

This is a great one on making your own windturbine. Take a look at what's going on out in the fields.
http://www.otherpower.com/wisc06.html

Many of these lists (Microhydro, wind, solar etc ) are doing some great small scale (1-2 households) power.

A large percentage are from 3rd world countries in Africa, South America, Asia. These people are doing some great things with just a few components.

If we survive at all, Big IF , I suspect we will have to learn another thing from Cuba. Not the food thing, but the ability to keep a fixed number of 1955-57 Chevy's running for 50 years? Those guys could repair ANYTHING on the car. That survival cleverness will be required. I see Solar collectors made out of Aluminium Flashing, and every other thing to solar heat and cool. Everything will be scrapped and reused.

Here's a question. What is the world going to do the the billions of 3000 pound metal objects no longer provide a service?

Like having a steamlocomotive in your front yard without track. Just sitting like a flower planter.

What are we going to do with the cars?

I bet they will be stripped, For example there's tons of little motors for raising windows, now one may drive my tracker for my solar hot water collector...

Technology taken apart and reused in new functions.

But, still billions will die of course. We're in overshoot.

I posted this (or a closely related) link last week.
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35489.pdf (PDF.. not huge) NREL has a few published studies that back this up.

PV recovers its embedded energy, down to the aluminum framing, in as little as 12-18 months. Panels regularly are sold with warranties of 20 and 25 years, and owners have reported degradations of less than 20% in that amount of time. Depending on the rebates if any, and the utility rates, people can justify the entire installations in anywhere from 6 to 20 years, leaving them FREE electricity from that point on.. they may have to replace batteries and inverters more frequently than panels, but it at least DOES repay its investment in well-under its lifespan.

http://www.homepower.com/files/pvpayback.pdf

It's a good, steady and sturdy source of electricity. Merely a BB, not a silver bullet, but it's a good BB.

Bob Fiske

Underground coal mining can, and is, done with 100% electricity today. And the transportation from the pit can be electrified as well.

Hard rock mining, unlike underground coal, may very well require explosives, but these are often nitrate based and Iceland had an ammonia fertilizer factory that operated off of air, water and electricity.

We are still over a lifetime away from 100% renewable production. I would be quite happy with 95& - 98% in the near future. Solar PV looks "good". Wind turbines look even "better" to me and hydroelectric better still.

Best Hopes,

alan

Paal,

Having completely run out of new books to read (fiction, at least), I've been re-reading some of my favorite writers.

Edward Abbey in "The Monkeywrench Gang" goes into quite elaborate detail (Honestly, today, he would be prosecuted as a terrorist and sent to Guantanamo. Our country's (USA), values, and 'national dialogue are so F&%$cked up) about neutralizing big-time coal operations that are both HUGE and FULLY ELECTRIC.

Yes, I do recall some diesel fuel trucks coming in at off-hours to fill a few things up, but the big machines and the rail links were ALL ELECTRIC!