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GAIA Host Collective
Hi Heading Out,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Some questions:
1) re: "Thus why begin to invest in the paperwork to start a new refinery/power plant/reactor if you can’t be certain that new rules, set in a couple of years, may negate the value of that investment?"
What do you see as a plan of action that addresses the concern you raise here?
Is there any way to address the concern you raise here? If so, what might that be?
2) re: "...to move plans of action forward."
What is the plan you would like to see "movers and shakers" put forward?
In other words, assume, for a moment, that a "mover and shaker" is elected who wishes to do "the right thing."
What is that "right thing"?
What should he/she do?
3) re: "Just as the folk that attended the Conference (unrelated to energy)..."
I notice Gail wrote on the topic of "peak oil" for her professional colleagues, and apparently continues on with her efforts.
So, I'm wondering if there might be some means to address the concerns you have with your professional colleagues? It seems everyone has a stake in this issue. (Or do you see it differently?)
4) re: "...These types of event provide considerable income to the locations where they are a common happening."
This strikes me as a crucial point, as humans interface w. the natural world via FF (for the most part), thus the diffusion of wealth over the human species, is, in a sense, a somewhat arbitrary free-for-all.
My question, though...I'm wondering if there might not be a way to address this.
I'm reminded of a charity who had a "silent party" event. No event, just send the money you'd otherwise spend.
Or...? Instead of jet travel, we'll donate for...(the construction of a community garden. I'm just reaching here.) Or, yes, the jet travel, and in addition...local carbon offsets. (By way of illustration, if nothing else.)
The gov acts only when the wolf is in the door, eg after pearl harbor and 9/11.
If forethought is needed, pin your hopes on the private sector and the hidden hand.
imo po is here, c+c is down no matter why you think sa is down. Its past time for chris to adjust his bottoms up for higher decline rates. Meanwhile, total liquids are pretty flat if you correct ethanol for reduced btu content... some may be noticing they can't drive as far with the ethanol blends.
Price has already brought po to the poor, no doubt about it, but price has also caught the attention of the private sector, always sniffing for a buck or two. Solar is very close, I today wrote a speculative check for shares in a co that hopes to have printed solar panels on the market next year, and with prices under $1/w by the following year. Expensive silicon is not used, so there is no obvious limit to scale up, or lack of funding if demo targets are met.
Nukes are advanced into the planning stage, some southern communities have voted for them, imo they will be announced before the next election. Dems will not try to stop them whether elected or not... we are likely to see ng shortages and brown outs by spring 2009. The public, and some greens, will be clamoring for nukes.
First I've heard about 4x corn ethanol improvements... imo the public is becoming aware that food = fuel and vice versa, just as some of the right wing south are beginning to focus on the equation fossil burning = gw = hurricanes.
Things will get better and worse. IMO po is accelerating africa down, but the trend was already very well established by vast corruption and thuggery. Even saddam was not as bad as what we are seeing now in deepest darkest, quickly getting deeper and darker. On he plus side for all calling for a reduced population, disease and starvation is helping out on the dark continent.
Nothing wrong re: chavez' changing the energy rules/contracts, and nothing new re: chavez' social experiment. The former will net more money if oil continues higher while the latter will destroy all non-energy production, first and foremost food production, just as it has done on fertile cuba.
Hi jkissing,
Not what I would consider an elegant solution and not much of a plus, especially considering how little energy Africans are using compared to us. There is a solution though but I doubt that your version of the invisible hand of the market place would give it a thumbs up. You can find the solution in Heller's novel Catch 22, quite simple but considering the momentum of this society about as much of a solution in the short term as wind power is for the energy problem. We need something on the scale of nuclear energy to help here. Something like LSD in the Perrier or San Pellegrino, then maybe Helliers solution would work.
Hi j,
Thanks for your response. Agree w. your assessment on the arrival of "peak" - plateau at the very least.
If possible to continue the discussion,
1) re: " The gov acts only when the wolf is in the door, eg after pearl harbor and 9/11."
Some argue that "gov" was acting prior to 9/11, (and similarly WRT Pearl Harbor, for that matter) and the sense I can see in that, if "sense" is to be made of it - (not willful conspiracy, rather negligence and/or using one event to justify another)- is WRT Cheney's speech to the PI. And the task force, here's just one ref. http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1225
However, if you mean in "acts" in a positive sense, my Q is: If you were "The gov" - what would you do?
Or have you addressed this elsewhere?
2) "If forethought is needed, pin your hopes on the private sector and the hidden hand."
How do you see this actually working? (Or, do you?) Do you see subsidies, tax, etc. as playing a role? If so, a necessary one? Tangential one?
What about the prospect (as predicted by Deffeyes and others) of increased volatility in oil price being less conducive to "private sector" response?
Also, what about the "receding horizons" argument?
And, do you personally have the view such hopes are justified? If so, can anything be done to enhance this route, one way or another? And what about in relation to what I assume (take as) a cynical (expression of sadness) WRT Africa...my Q is: if something could be done in a positive sense, can you describe what this would be?
3) Just out of curiosity, if legal/kosher to tell, what is the name of the solar co?
4) re: Cuba. Not sure how to interpret what you say. I have a friend from Cuba who's offered to refute point-by-point, the apparent characterization of Cuba ("role model role") in the film. So, curious what you're saying here, if you might perhaps explain a little further.
Aniya:
I have to grin since lots of my proposals and papers begin, these days, with comments about the problems of future energy supply - which I then tie into the relevance about the subject I am writing about - which may superficially not be related. I am, in short, becoming quite a bore on the subject.
The main problem I was trying to decry is the system inertia that will now occupy the body politic for the next three years, minimizing the willingness of industry to make an investment now since they don't know how the election will turn out - so from that point of view it is not really the candidate that can do much about it. Unless, that is there was broad political agreement say that whoever got in would put a CTL plant in Montana, or accept a nuclear reactor in Manhattan or whatever.
I would like to see a significantly greater investment in relatively novel ideas for addressing the energy imbalance, and this would include programs to stress conservation as well as broader funding for innovation - no matter, in the first go round, if it does not initially meet the approval of "the man who Knows." The problem is big enough that we can afford to fund a few blind alleys, just in case some of them aren't quite that blind.
And the reference to the travel etc related to the scale of the impact that is likely to come about as travel prices rise, since so many "discretionary" industries will become vulnerable.
HO,
First, nice post. I agree with you and GreyZone that we have a focus problem not a technical problem.
In my simplistic mind I have boiled this down to the inability to craft a viable business plan based on using less. Less of anything, but particularly less energy.
How does one get funding for launching projects with the defined goal of ultimately using less than the existing infrastructure. Why would a bank or government fund it? There is more return in the status quo system. Until the system of lending money (to get more money returned) breaks, we won't use money to build infrastructure that consumes less energy.
It not about being efficient with energy or food. It is about being efficient with money. What is the best way to multiply it? I don't see that model having a lot to do with using less.
Hi NC,
I appreciate your comments, which I'd like to understand a little better.
1) re: "In my simplistic mind I have boiled this down to the inability to craft a viable business plan based on using less. Less of anything, but particularly less energy."
Well, for sure, we can say: given no change, on the global scale, "we" are (in global total from all sources, already? not sure) (or will be soon) using less energy.
However, it seems that regarding what appears to be (on the technology side of things) - the "need" to expand the renewable wedge for the predicted shrink of the FF wedge in HO's article...
This isn't exactly "less" in every framework.
To expand the renewable wedge is "more".
So, part one is: If we stop building roads tomorrow, and start putting in wind farms - do you mean...no business plan that does not count on re-directed tax revenue and/or subsidies?
And part two: If renewable energy technologies are manufactured, this means (perhaps) electricity will (still) be available, hence the infrastructure that uses electricity presumably can still use it.
Yes? No? Maybe?
2) What am I missing? In other words, yes, on the large scale - less energy. However, for any particular piece of it - I'm not so sure. How would you address this?
3) Someone has written previously with the example of Starbucks, along the lines (to put it in my own words), some times the material component of a price is very small - it's a kind of tokenism, really, not reflecting the material of the product.
So, for example, if every coffee customer brought in his/her own cup...? Don't know what this might do to the arrangements, in terms of money flow. Also, strictly speaking, in terms of energy, if each cup is washed by the user. Still...?
4) Of course, the rationale for the "ultimate goal" part is - do with less or do without altogether. We each have our personal preferences, which may make the problem seem intractable. Still, there are some "goods" people can agree on. Maybe - ?
Aniya,
Yes, I am continuing to write for my colleagues and others. I have had a fairly good response to Our Finite World: Implications for Actuaries, although people still tend to think that the problems are many years away.
My latest is on corn ethanol. (This may eventually be on TOD). I make several points in this article that would be worthwhile sharing with politicians, including:
1. In the volumes produced today, ethanol is a substitute for MTBE, rather than a substitute for gasoline.
2. MTBE, which is made from natural gas, was a US-made non-petroleum gasoline extender.
3. The analysis by EIA of the expected impact of the substituting ethanol for MTBE was that it would reduce gasoline supply and raise gasoline prices.
4. Ethanol is most heavily used between May and September. It seems likely that the substitution of ethanol for MTBE is contributing to the summer run-up in gasoline prices.
5. Large increases in corn production above current levels are likely to have adverse impacts and be unsustainable.
6. When we substitute corn ethanol for MTBE, we are effectively substituting a more expensive US-made gasoline extender for a less expensive US-made gasoline extender (not ethanol for foreign oil, as is commonly assumed).
7. The economic impact of substituting corn ethanol for MTBE is likely to be inflationary. The change likely adversely affects the balance of payments, because corn (and other food) exports are likely reduced.
8. It does not make sense to continue subsidies for corn ethanol.
If others agree with my points, it seems like it would be worthwhile getting this message to politicians. I may need to prepare a one page version of my article that could be aimed at politicians.
GOod points, some I did not know.
RE: politicians...
Politicians are not stupid, many have excellent staff. IMO most know that ethanol is a dead end. They continue for some very good reasons:
1 they are being bribed.
2 The public wants to believe there is a painless solution to our oil dependency. RIght now the public is quite happy with the ethanol myth, and politicians never want to be a bearer of bad tidings because in this case they will be replaced by those who will say what the public wants to hear.
Hi Gail,
Thanks for sharing your work. These are interesting points, which I'll definitely make use of
I hope you continue on...