everyone only believes what everyone else believes as long as it's convienient..

And that's different from religion how?

Meaning..
I'm here on this site because Peak Oil interests me AS A SUBJECT. Once the subject has changed (might take a few decades), I doubt I'll have much in common with the others in this "community".

I think ("believe" - not "credo") that this (PO) is a real issue. Once the issue is passè (ie no longer convienent), either as an issue or as an interest for my personal situation, then I won't be here any more, just like you won't be here any more.

Again, compare that to a real alternative lifestyle like that of the Amish, who are here to stay..

The Amish lifestyle is not the sustainable dream many believe.

There's a lot of variation, of course, since each community is free to set their own rules. But they are not anti-technology. They just want to remain separate from the "English." So they may have phones, but not in the house. They use propane powered farm equipment and appliances, so they are not connected to the grid (but they are not immune to peak oil, either). Generally, they do not own cars, but they do hire vans to go shopping. Those black garments are often made of polyester. If they get sick, they go to modern doctors and hospitals. They are economically connected with the rest of the world, buying from and selling to the rest of us.

Perhaps most strikingly...they have a lot of kids, and thus are constantly expanding. That is not sustainable.

What the Amish are doing right: they think of the effects technology will have on the community before adopting it. For example, a man may be allowed to own a tractor, if he attaches a horse to it. Why? They fear that a tractor will make a man greedy, encouraging him to buy up his neighbors' lands and forcing them to get tractors, too, to compete. But if a horse has to be hooked to it, the farmer can still only plow so much land in a day.

I think that kind of community orientation is possible without religion. Certainly, religion on its own does not create sustainability. (See mega-churches. So big many have their own public transportation systems.) Why it works for the Amish is that their communities are small. It would work for non-religious small communities, too. (And has. I've posted some stories about hippie communities that have survived and thrived over the past couple of weeks.)

Thank you Leanan for the reply.

I know this thread is probably dead, BUT:

Just wanted to say that I do not think that the Amish have a valid sustainable lifestyle. They only have a consistent ALTERNATIVE lifestyle (my point). It will NOT be the answer to any sort of overshoot.. Their socio-economic fabric, on the other hand, will be strong enough to withstand many peak oils.