"...I can run the electric stove off our PV system... "

Really? I haven't spent a ton of time on PV calculations but I do know that electric resistance takes a LOT of electrical energy. How big is your PV system?

Solar dehydrators can be made using a variety of scrap or recycled materials that will likely be available, especially once the abandoned suburban houses start to be salvaged.

We've got a pressure canner, but the truth is that there is very little that we absolutely would have to can under pressure. Sweet corn could be dehydrated instead, and green beans could be salted away in crocks; lots of other vegs could be salted away as well. (That presumes that there will continue to be a salt supply; as salt is among the oldest of all trade goods, that seems like a pretty safe bet.) As I'm sure you know, tomatoes and fruits can be canned by hot water process rather than pressure -- considerably more people would have a large enough pot do do this over a wood fire outside if all else fails. It is also a more forgiving & foolproof method; almost all beginners start with this and later move on to pressure canning.

Then of course there are also root cellars, which can include a variety of non-structural underground storage methods. In many locations, some root crops can just be wintered over right in the garden.

Finally, as I said in another post on this same thread, people traditionally would keep pigs, and a lot of the garden produce that was not immediately eaten would end up being fed to the pigs. That was not waste, but rather a different and highly efficient form of storage.

As I explained on another post, I anticipate that people with the equipment and know how will specialize in this. People that don't have a clue when it comes to producing and preserving food will have to produce something else of value to exchange with these neighborhood specialists.

Canners,

I have two large pressure canners and two waterbath canners.

I use the pressure only for foods that require it. Tomatoes,jams,jellies..etc, and pickles don't require it as plenty of acid.

If questionable then I pressure can.

As to Leanans statement on energy. Its easy to do outside with a wood fire. With waterbath all you are really doing in most cases is creating a vacumn to seal the lids.

Botulism and salmonella prone foods need the higher heat (via pressure) to destroy the spores and such. But with greenbeans many did not pressure can in the older times but just cooked them a long time to destroy whatever might possibly be tainted and thats IMO why country food like greenbeans are very throughly cooked down here. To be sure no getting sick. That translated so most southern cooking is highly seasoned with jowl,fatback or bacon and cooked extra long.

Canning is a lot of fun. You get great satisfaction from seeing all those nice jars full of healthy food and no middle men involved ,except for flats(lids),everything else you saved.

You can also ferment foods. Very healthy too.

I know you are aware of all this Todd but just using your post to speak on the subject.

However even here in the rural outback many (most) do not can food anymore. They go to Walmarts or whatever. Just lazy or the younger folks just don't care to. Having never had to do it before.

Blue Ball puts out and excellent book. Also 'Putting Foods By' is very good.

I ferment,can,dehydrate and freeze. I just dehydrate fruit and tomatoes,,some peppers. I usually also grow my own spices. Garlic,oregano,basil,sage and so forth.

Its the only way to go.

Today I brought a sack of cane sugar. Now they are putting it in 4 lb sacks and charging $2.49...no more 5 lb sacks I guess, so I went and brought a 25 lb sack for $5.00 at Sams Club.

The merchants are starting to rape us with food prices. How is it that Sams Club can sell 25 lbs of sugar for $5 yet the grocery stores charge half that for 4 lbs? This tells me they are really screwing the public.

Thats one reason I preserve my own garden produce.

Next year,chaos suspended a bit I will bring up a hive of bees. Build my supers and uppers this winter. Then I won't need their sugar anymore.

I don't find canning a chore. Sit out on the porch with a fish cooker fired by propane,some mixed drinks and a good cigar and easy chair. Not that much work. Preparing the food is a tad of work. Cleaning cutting etc.

I can put up 3 canner loads easy before the day heats up. Two huge burners on my fishcooker brings them up to high temp fairly fast. I have a 500 gal propane tank I own and am going to rent another. Just using it for cooking I think I can get 5 to 10 years out of 1,000 gallons.

Airdale

Thanks jokuhl,

I wondered what your seemingly perverse fascination with mirrors was, glad to hear I surmised incorrectly, ... even here on the coast we get enough sun to make a food dehydration under glass a possibility instead of the usual mold infested stuff and with mirrors cut into parabolic reflectors, my goodness what a variety of joys to be had. We need some sort of depository to put good helpful ideas like that in.

My small addition here which, I mentioned before about self employment in a PO work environment, is to stock up on a few glass cutters.

If you have any more information on how you are building your sunshine machines, I for one am interested.

Look what I found. Energy free refrigerator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot-in-pot_refrigerator

We've gone to mason gar lids because they are more foolproof and thus safer, but that isn't what they used to use. They used to use jars with wire bales and a rubber seals. The jar & bale are of course reusable over and over again unless they take a quick trip to the floor. The rubber seals should not be reused, but rubber is a renewable resource (presuming that at least a little trade can be maintained with tropical areas). Thus, once a sufficient inventory of jars has been produced to provide a sufficient storage capacity for the population, the ongoing resource flows required are quite minimal - glass and steel wire for a few replacement jars each year, and rubber for the seals.

Don't bother.

And drop your 'project' to harass me. Its getting stale and if you make me mad you will wish you hadn't.

In fact put the put the heliostat up your azz and I'll stick with the waterbath.

You need to go back to the teenybopper chat rooms where you could make a few good impressions and come off as the expert to all the cooing nimrods. All your 'googling' and passing it off as knowledge is quite obvious.

For my part you can ditch the plastic canning lids,,unless *YOU* have some real life experiences with them that you wish to share instead of googletrivia and hearsay claptrap.

Airdale-I'm getting tired of your dogging me. The next reply won't be so pleasant and likely result in some deletions. Save us all some bandwidth and change you mantra boyo.

http://www.weckcanning.com/docs/product_line.htm

Glass lids, rubber gasket, glass jars. Cheaper than the wire ones I saw in leamans

Dry your food.

Native Americans and many other pre and post-industrial societies use this extremely low energy method to preserve foods. You can also preserve by pickling.

Skip the canning. Why waste the energy?

Don't have time to find the hard numbers for you, perhaps your county extension agent could help you. I do know as a general rule that industrial processes are going to be more efficient on a per-unit basis due to economies of scale. Home freezing vs. home canning depends upon the amount of time that it stays in the freezer.

Sounds like a chickenshit solution!

It is not a tax, it is land rent.