The Oil Drum | Can We Be Happy Using Less Energy? Uhhh.... YES!

167 comments on Can We Be Happy Using Less Energy? Uhhh.... YES!

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jokuhl on June 21, 2007 - 4:25pm

Maybe not 'associated' as such, but it well should be..

Sorry, This whole line of logic is convenient sexism. Men do plenty of shopping, and are marketed to for an incredible range of unnecessary products, from Movies and Videogames, to Pornography, Oversized Trucks, Cheap Tools, Sporting 'Accessories', Alcohol (this is where much of the 'Dropping' comes in, whether its dropping off the barstool or just dropping much of your paycheck too many Fridays.).. no small amount of vanity products, etc..

We're all consumers to some degree, but I'd wager that women having access to more discretionary cashflow has done more to benefit children, household and nutrition than when they had to get the money from Dad.. but by a similar token, now that it takes at least two incomes even to barely get by for so many people, the resulting detriment to child welfare likely far outstrips the benefits of the Mothering instinct.

I don't buy the 'Men raised by women' premise in Fight Club.. the logic escapes me.. If anything, it's that most of us have been raised by TV.. which is to say Cereal Commercials, while both parents were working, grandparents might be in another state, etc etc.. The particulars run the gamut, of course.. but I'd say we were suckled by Ma Bell and General Mills.

Obey your Thirst.

Bob

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BrianT on June 21, 2007 - 4:41pm

Jokuhl: Whenever anyone points out obvious differences between men and women (in general) a label of sexism will result. I realize that what I am going to say is a generalization, but here goes: I have met a great many men who could be quite happy and fulfilled living in a basement apartment providing they had access to all the attractive women they desired. I have yet to meet a single female who would call living in a dump while having access to attractive poor males a dream existence. Yes, there are American men who love to shop, buy moisterizer and shoes, and there might be some American women who would love the existence I outlined above, but IN GENERAL there are major differences between the sexes in happiness/fulfillment derived from shopping/consumption.

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jokuhl on June 21, 2007 - 8:43pm

Moisturizer and Shoes? Did you think I was talking about boutique shoppers? Frankly, my own examples replaced sexism with classism, but just to make the point that 'shopping' doesn't mean carrying cute little bags around the Galleria. The comment that consumerism was a result of womens' lib just seemed hilariously blinded to the great marketing targets that are out there.. so since this is a fairly male site, albeit a reasonably intelligent one, that perspective looked a lot like a bit of sloppy police work.

I do notice a lot of things I think are actual distinctions between men and women.. and there are certainly women who like to go shopping, but I don't really see that cliche' as a useful broad brush (no pun) to paint with.

Bob

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Vintermann on June 22, 2007 - 8:35am

A basement apartement, attractive women AND a whole load of hi-tech gadgetry, at the very least. I tried "Magic: The Gathering" when I was young, and let me tell you, men are very much susceptible to the shopping urge.

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adamdschneider on June 21, 2007 - 4:51pm

I just don't agree. Anecdotal evidence alert: I have never known a man to go shopping for leisure, as a form of recreation. I have hardly known a woman who does not do it (any women who hang out on TOD are probably the exception). I know there's a book out there about the first London shopping district and how women were instrumental to its success because they were taught to see shopping as a sign of independence and modernization...Also I would say that the vanity products are indulged in primarily by men who more or less are becoming women. There is nothing wrong with being clean, but there is everything wrong with being Patrick Bateman.

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jokuhl on June 21, 2007 - 8:57pm

Men becoming Women?

Well, there's a market there, too. In fact, Gay men have, as a demographic anyway, a great amount of purchasing power, though I don't see them as 'becoming Women'. They're just gay men.

When I mentioned vanity products, I was thinking about Viagra, Bald-spot Spraypaints, Big Trucks. Soap I see as an essential, not a frill. And to keep with my 'Just plain guys' Demographic, then shopping for Leisure could be either the Sports Authority Jersey Aisle or the Hooters LapDanceteria. Mine, true to the spirit of the site is SuperbrightLEDs~dot~com or the Altenergy Store.. maybe Amazon for the odd DVD.

Good luck with the range of women in your world. It's reminding me of Westchester county. Yeeach!

Bob

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adamdschneider on June 21, 2007 - 11:53pm

When I said shopping for leisure or recreation, what I meant was viewing the store and the browsing thereof as a source of enjoyment, not the products themselves. How many guys do you know will go out on an all day shopping trip? I know none. What I mean is that men want something, they go to the store, they get it. Women go to the store to see if something will catch their eye. They view the act of shopping itself as recreation, where a man does not, in my experience.

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jokuhl on June 22, 2007 - 9:10am

Ok, those are your impressions of how the scenes play out and by whom..

I'm trying to get at;
How much is getting spent,
Whether the purchases are useful or not,
Did the consumption make some happier, or did it just make their 'consuming addiction' happier?

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ericy on June 22, 2007 - 12:17am

Men do their leisure shopping at Home Depot :-).

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BrianT on June 21, 2007 - 4:55pm

To continue in the sexist thread, isn't it basically 99% guys on this site? Only Leanan and Gail come to mind from the fairer sex. That would imply a difference between the sexes, in general, in how much amusement or intellectual satisfaction
one would gain from such a website.

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CSS on June 21, 2007 - 7:05pm

There are a lot more of us women here than you realize.

And as for shopping: of course women shop more! Who does the overwhelming majority of family grocery shopping, kids clothes shopping, purchasing birthday/wedding/ect. gifts for friends and family. Yes, some women think shopping is fun, but most of what they buy is at least somewhat useful. Guys buy big expensive things that often are purely entertainment (boats, jetskis, freakin' World of Warcraft junk).

I have met a great many men who could be quite happy and fulfilled living in a basement apartment providing they had access to all the attractive women they desired. I have yet to meet a single female who would call living in a dump while having access to attractive poor males a dream existence.

You don't even want to speculate on what I think of that comment...

To continue in the sexist thread, isn't it basically 99% guys on this site? Only Leanan and Gail come to mind from the fairer sex. That would imply a difference between the sexes, in general, in how much amusement or intellectual satisfaction
one would gain from such a website.

Most women don't have time to hang out here, between work and family responsibilities. Younger men are helping more with household chores/child rearing, but the bulk is still done by women on top of work.
Few have jobs that allow for internet surfing (think nurses & teachers can surf at work?)

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jokuhl on June 21, 2007 - 9:03pm

Thanks, CSS;
To fill in that picture, I've got a 4 yr old hanging off me, waiting to be put to bed as I type, while my wife is across the street at a Womens' Summer Solstice party.. but without question, she is the shopper, the planner, the nutritionist, the clothier. I'm no slouch, but dang, she puts me to shame!

She's no Mall-princess, though. Busts her butt doing what's necessary, and a big part of that is shopping.

Did I mention, though.. I'm no slouch.. really.

Ok, Lorelei, I'm coming. Bedtime!

Bob

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adamdschneider on June 22, 2007 - 12:02am

Ok, we are not talking about buying the necessary items for the house--which, in my experience, is not shopped for or maintained "overwhelmingly" by women anymore--but purchasing things like clothes and cosmetics. Granted, I live in Chicago, but even in the small town I grew up in the girls liked to shop.

I don't buy the somewhat useful argument...at all. A pair of shoes is useful. Your thirteenth pair of shoes--all of which hurt your feet--is not. Your $900 handbag? Yeah, not useful. Also, remember, we are talking about the culture of shopping. Buying a jetski is not the same--in this context--as going to Neiman Marcus every couple of weeks. The jetski purchase happens once. There is no end to the shoe pile. By the way, a significant fraction (as in over a quarter) of World of Warcraft players are female.

Also, I would like to reiterate that any women who regularly frequent TOD almost certainly do not fit this profile, but in my experience nearly all women these days do.

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Arthur Robey on June 22, 2007 - 3:11am

Arthur Robey
Warning!! Tedious hot button topic. Around and around we go.
I have reached the conclusion that men and women should avoid each other except while breeding.
Strict Apartheit. Seperate religions. Seperate surnames. Seperate homes. Seperate bank accounts.
I for one, can smuggly report that I do not burden any female.

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GreenEconomist on June 22, 2007 - 6:00am

Women also gain hapiness from giving...
A study just published in Science (Neural Responses to Taxation and Voluntary Giving Reveal Motives for Charitable Donations) used MRI technology to observe the brain activity of 19 women who were given $100 each. They could chose whether to give away money or keep it for themselves. The study found that reward-related areas of the brain lit up when giving to charity, similar to the satisfaction after having eaten a nice meal.

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