44 comments on Peak Oil Media
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44 comments on Peak Oil Media
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I'm listening now, and 2/3 through I haven't heard him repeat his technologically uninformed comments from Long Emergency. I think he has learned from critics of that book (I'm guessing) and is confining himself to the cultural/political critic mode, which he does very well.
Look, we all understand that Kunstler was fiction writer first, cultural/urban critic second, and is not trained as a scientist. He has sometimes said things that make that painfully obvious. That doesn't mean he deserves to be dismissed.
Kunstler's analysis of the state of our society and its possible futures are worth thinking about and meditating on.
I found him to be very sober and well grounded (even in scientific terms) in this talk.
Which technologically uninformed comments are you referring to, from The Long Emergency?
Frankly, I remember rolling my eyes when I read his technological arguments about alternative energies in the Long Emergency... sounded like an undergraduate term paper. My copy is long gone by now. I remember him lumping his dismissal of completely loony ideas together with his dismissal of techno-solutions upon which reasonable people still disagree (with no sense that he understood the difference), and having a sense that he was parroting opinions, not analyzing options. Scientifically informed friends of mine rejected his good arguments about human society in the present because of his amateurish discussion of energy alternatives... and I remember having to agree with them that his discussion was pretty weak.
Kunstler is not in a position to speak intelligently about alternative energy options. The best he can do is report other people's opinions.
-------------
I think his critique of the contemporary social and political blindness is spot on. His "greatest misallocation of resources in human history" argument hardly seems disputable. His "they still want to make the world safe for cars" is the bomb. He's a prophet.
Nobody knows however how fast things will fall apart, how quickly and to what extent we'll organize alternatives (in energy and in ways of life). But a great deal depends on technological unknowables that people other than Kunstler have a better basis to speculate on than does he.
The best argument that civilization can survive peak oil comes from Cuba, in my opinion. The American southwest is of course doomed. Huge areas of the world are overpopulated for a non-petro-agricultural food economy. We're heading for a big mess. But even as we descend, I'm a techno-optimist in the sense that I think islands of humanity will devise clever and violent ways of surviving.
I don't know how big those geo-political islands will be... I just think that the general downward trend will be resisted in some places.
I'm betting that we're screwed, but not doomed.
>Kunstler is not in a position to speak intelligently about alternative energy options. The best he can do is report other people's opinions.
Kunstler also believe that the Y2K probably would cause a huge collapse as technology all over the US would fail plunging us into darkness. His creditablity is virtually non-existant at this point.
>The best argument that civilization can survive peak oil comes from Cuba, in my opinion.
Bad example. Cuba imports a massive amount of food from the US and its economy is dependant on toursism.
Clearly, that's not true. Otherwise he would not get invited to speak at conferences or in documentaries and he would sell only fiction. Also, people like oregon7 wouldn't be saying nice things about him. Maybe you meant to say that you, personally, don't accept anything he says, simply because he was predicting catastrophe over Y2K. Who knows, his prediction may have worked out, to some extent, if nothing had been done about it. Something was done about it, so some people now say that it is an example of a non-event and proves peak oil will be also.
Well, one of his constant themes in The Long Emergency is that he's not convinced that the alternative energies that he examines can be built without a fossil fuel based infrastructure. I guess his failing here is that he never quite explained why that would not be possible in the future. But I generally agree with him, in the sorts of timescale we need.
He's not an energy scientist so I don't know why your friend would expect a highly technical study of the alternatives. Others have done better jobs there and largely come to the same conclusions (like Richard Heinberg and Paul Roberts, though the latter did, at one time, appear to hold out hope for hydrogen). So far I haven't read a convincing case that a combination of alternatives could keep the party going for long, once oil starts to decline.
Remember that Kunstler was examining alternatives, in terms of enabling our current oil based way of life to continue. The alternatives may be very useful for different living arrangements, but that was not his focus in that section of his book.