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GAIA Host Collective
I have long considered such a move myself. I spent three weeks in Northern Honduras and the Bay Islands in 1997, and three weeks in Guatemala, around the Rio Dulce area, in 2000, looking for a place to retire, perhaps on my boat.
But I have since had second thoughts. I now believe an American that living in a third world country, when things really get tough, would be disastrous. Such a person would suffer the wrath of every starving person in the country.
Just being a member of any minority in any country would be a perilous position to be in. All manner of civil behavior would disappear. “Others” are always blamed for the misfortunes people suffer during times of crisis. And no better a target would exist than an American living amongst pitiful starving masses of a different culture and language, especially if law enforcement disappears. And one thing I found while in Honduras and Guatemala that law enforcement is already in very short supply there. It could completely disappear with little provocation.
While in La Cebia, Honduras, I was shocked to see an armed guard, with a shotgun, standing outside the local Burger King. Then I noticed the same thing at KFC, and everywhere else. Because robbery is so easy and the police so scarce, even fast food restaurants are forced to hire their own armed guards. I believe such a place would be an extremely dangerous place for an American during a local insurrection. And insurrections will be everywhere as we tumble over the cliff of diminishing fuel supplies.
Ron Patterson
While in La Cebia, Honduras, I was shocked to see an armed guard, with a shotgun, standing outside the local Burger King. Then I noticed the same thing at KFC, and everywhere else. Because robbery is so easy and the police so scarce, even fast food restaurants are forced to hire their own armed guards.
Have you visited an 'inner city' mall or fast food shop in the US of A?
Last 'inner city' mall I was at:
2 bill paying centers, 1 bank, 5 other units. at least 1 guard per store, and 3 'guards' in the general walking around area. These guards just lack the shotguns.
When you drive down the street and see an armed guard at every business with a cash register, or you have to step around a 20 year old with a shotgun when you visit your local Wendy's, then you can make a legitimate comparison.
Ron Patterson
yes, it could be wise to stay in your own country. For example in Europe we have a huge muslim immigrant population.
If i were a muslim in Europe, i would think about moving back to my muslim country.
WTSHTF the europeans could vote up new Hitlers, and kill the muslims, like the germans did with the jews. I believe this will be very likely. Most of ordinary people hate the muslims already. Everybody i talk to are negative to the muslim immigrants. Only the politicos are positive, and the matter is tabu for now, but it could very fast change if TSHTF.
Oh don't be shy now. Just say what you mean!!
I thought i did it.
Hello Swede,
Probably impossible to do because of our aggregate genetic desire to scapegoat others, but I thought an example near the very end of the movie "Gandhi" was hopeful:
http://sfy.ru/sfy.html?script=gandhi
-------------------------------------
The Goondas stand. They glance at Suhrawardy; he smiles tautly and they start to leave, but one (Nahari) lingers. Suddenly he moves violently toward Gandhi,taking a flat piece of Indian bread (chapati) from his trousers and tossing it forcefully on Gandhi.
NAHARI: Eat.
Mirabehn and Azad start to move toward him – the man looks
immensely strong and immensely unstable. But Gandhi holds up a shaking hand, stopping them. Nahari's face is knotted in emotion, half anger, half almost a child's fear –
but there is a wild menace in that instability.
NAHARI: Eat! I am going to hell – but not with your death on my soul.
GANDHI: Only God decides who goes to hell . . .
NAHARI (stiffening, aggressive): I – I
killed a child . . . (Then an anguished defiance) I smashed his head against a wall.
Gandhi stares at him, breathless.
GANDHI (in a fearful whisper): Why? Why?
It is as though the man has told him of some terrible self-inflicted wound.
NAHARI (tears now – and wrath): They
killed my son – my boy!
Almost reflexively he holds his hand out to indicate the height of his son. He glares at Suhrawardy and then back at Gandhi.
NAHARI: The Muslims killed my son . . . they killed him.
He is sobbing, but in his anger it seems almost as though he means to kill Gandhi in retaliation. A long moment, as Gandhi meets his pain and wrath. Then
GANDHI: I know a way out of Hell.
Nahari sneers, but there is just a flicker of desperate curiosity.
GANDHI: Find a child – a child whose mother and
father have been killed. A little boy – about this high.
He raises his hand to the height Nahari has indicated as his son's.
GANDHI: . . . and raise him – as your own.
Nahari has listened. His face almost cracks – it is a chink of light, but it does not illumine his darkness.
GANDHI: Only be sure . . . that he is a Muslim. And
that you raise him as one.
And now the light falls on Nahari. His face stiffens, he swallows, fighting any show of emotion; then he turns to go. But he takes only a step and he turns back, going to his knees, the sobs breaking again and again from his heaving body as he holds his head to Gandhi's feet in the traditional greeting of Hindu son to Hindu father.A second, and Gandhi reaches out and touches the top of his head.
Mirabehn watches. The Goondas watch. Suhrawardy watches. Finally
GANDHI (gently, exhaustedly): Go – go.
God bless you . . .
--------------------------------
Most likely: we will go the way of Tadeusz Borowski, #119198, who personally helped maybe 50,000 or more of his closest friends, "THIS WAY FOR THE GAS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!"
http://dieoff.com/page226.htm [Please be prepared: this is a gut-wrenching read]
Yeast don't choose sides, then resort to violence. =(
Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?
Hello Bob
WTSHTF i believe we will see a lot of this(see former Yugoslavia, Ruanda etc even before PO).
Hello Swede,
Thxs for responding. Yep, since, in the aggregate we refuse to peacefully control our population Overshoot and the planet's carrying-capacity, then, by default: we will genetically whittle our grand total down postPeak. Of course, Mother Nature will lend a hand to reinforce this blowback trend.
My hope is that eventually enough people will become Peakoil Outreach informed that we can somehow optimize our detritus decline, then ramp up effective biosolar strategies so the Bottleneck Squeeze is as effective as possible for the maximum # of lifeforms to reach the other side. Time will tell.
It won't be much fun if it is only humans and cockroaches on the last outpost of a tropical Ellesmere Island. =(
Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?
Funny you should bring this up. I ran across the story again in an anthology recently, after not having read it in many years.
It still shocks me.
Borowski killed himself before he reached 30 years old, I believe.
According to Nirad Chaudhuri,one of my fave writers, most of GHandi was a load of baloney. pure Hollywood and largely apocryphal. Of course G's himself was stage-manager extraordinaire so this is appropriate.
Matt
Ron--
I have spent a lot of time in Central America (I drove from California to Costa Rica, then island hopped through the Caribbean, finally ending up in Columbia- long story), and surfed in Mexico, El Salvador and Costa Rica fairly frequently.
Anyway, forget Central America- with the exception of Nicaragua, all are client states of the US, with the usual huge difference in class, wealth, and all the suffering and violence that those conditions cause. Argentina or Chile offer greater opportunities for emigration, with educated populaces out of the thumb of the corporate jackals of the World Bank, and the economic slavery that brings on. Plus, Venezuela seems to be honestly trying to create a true Boleverian Revolution, with possible more energy security (possibly being the key word)
Personally, it is BC for me--
I feel you are right Ron. The scarest phrase Post Peak I think will be "You're not from around here are ya?"
I wouldn't think a country/cultural change at this time. I was in San Paulo Bz and Bueno Aries Argentina a few years ago, and wouldn't want to be there post peak for example.
Immigrants will have the same experience here in rural areas I believe. In cities enclaves of different groups will spring up more than there is now.
I'm from the northeast US and our citie had a german section, an italian section, a polish section, an irish section(Only citie with a traffic light has the Green Light over the Red Light),
Those families with roots that still exist in rural america I think will fall back there to some degree.
Watch for water to seek it's own level in times to come.
Stratification will increase.
The only one I know of in the northeast US is in Syracuse NY.
Where IS that 'Theory of Everything' ?
Here
it is !