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Hi Leanan,
Thanks again for the wonderful job you do editing the Drumbeat!
On the end of suburbia article:
The suburbs have been around for a long time. Sinclair Lewis was writing about the phenomenon of streetcar suburbs in Babbit, and many suburbs in fast growing areas have become inner city. The population has trippled in the US in the last century.
Suburbs were created because people wanted inexpensive new housing, and over the years have evolved a non-sustainable form based on cheap transportation. As transportation gets more expensive rapidly, suburbs are going to have to evolve, and some I'm sure will disappear. In order to survive, suburbs are going to need local sources of employment and public transportation. So whether any individual suburb survives is going to depend on building community.
Bob Ebersole
Seems that an early alteration in the existing suburbs may be that they become more village-like. Meaning that a scattering of nodes within the sprawl are "re-zoned" (officially or not) to convert a few existing buildings or lots into small groceries, general stores (with video rentals and some hardware items), cafes/bars, tele-commuting offices, transit pick-up points, and other stores or services that allow the surrounding residents to walk, bike, or take a VERY short drive to handle the errands they are now driving long distances for.
Maybe some of the greenspaces put in long ago by the developers will even become community garden or commercial garden space...
Greg in MO
Grub Hoe: The human-powered tiller.
Yadda, yadda, yadda. In reality, you either live in the city as part of the merchant class creating goods or you live in the country and bring your farm goods to market.
So ... if you don't like farming and sweating - move to the city and learn a trade. If you aren't the owner, then learn to sweat over the stitching machine, hydraulic press, mill.
For a long time I've been pessimistic about suburbia (I never liked it very much anyway), but lately as I watch the town I live in I've grown more optimistic because,
Point 1. This town is about 30 - 40 miles from Boston with regular commuter train service into downtown.
Point 2. The condominium development I live in is very compact, 300 units (about 1,000) people in an roughly oval area with axis of about 1/4 mile and 1/2 mile.
Point 3. Within 1/2 to 1 mile there are two small malls with four restaurants and other miscellaneous necessary stores, and lots of office space.
Point 4. Two more developments of town houses and apartments are going up in this area with 200 to 400 units each.
Point 5. There are four other similar areas in the town.
So there'll be enough people, shops, and working space for a small, walkable city here before long. If we can persuade the town to start a bus or light rail (trolley) line connecting the areas to each other and to the train stations, the town would be well on its way to being ready when TSHTF.
But there are negatives as well,
Negative 1. There are far more people in eastern Massachusetts than can be supported with the existing food production and that production is heavily geared toward apples and other fruit.
Negative 2. There is no energy here other than that coming from the sun, wind, or sea and the current population is far more than can be supported by this energy flow.
Negative 3. The influential people and the government powers that be can't conceive of the magnitude of the problem and are strongly addicted to growth and techno-fixes, indeed I've found it's a religion to many.
But all told I'm optimistic. The ghosts of Thoreau, Emerson, and Buckminster Fuller are around in force if people can see beyond their current romanticized images. We're in for an exciting ride which requires deep thinking about the world, society, and ourselves, and that makes it even more exciting.
Petrochemist,
My crystal ball is on the blink today about Massachusetts. Its probably because we are having the 60th anniversary of the space aliens crash landing in Roswell.
Things are different here in Galveston. We have a population of 60,000 and a port,we might survive. But at the north end of the county there are genuine exurban locales-notably League City and Friendswood. They're having a real estate meltdown, and I'm thinking a large part of these towns will end up abandoned. The inhabitants all responded to the seduction of 2nd mortgages, at least one adult in every family has to commute, and it takes two incomes to pay the mortgages, credit cards and car notes. House prices are plunging, with the builders dumping new homes on the market for less money that the folks in slightly older homes owe. The city governments are stuffed with real estate sorts, so they'll do little. The upshot is that just one personal crisis-divorce, a lay-off, sickness-and the house is foreclosed.
It's not that a lot of areas can't be made much more liveable by producing local fruit, nuts and vegetables. I've known a number of people who made a reasonable amount of food from their yards. My father kept a couple of hives of bees and had a pecan and pear tree. My next door neighbor has two 30 ft. avocados and a fig tree. A deceased father in law had vegetables instead of ornamental plants in his back yard-tomatoes, okra, lettuce instead of monkey grass, yellow squash bushes, ect. But, we have ordinances in a lot of these towns that prevent people from doing stuff like raising chickens or bees, and huge amounts of land are wasted under concrete streets and superfullous sidewalks.
In these new suburban towns there is a lack of community, they have poorly attended civic clubs, 2% perticipation local elections, not even many churches. There's not really anyone to help out as entropy takes over.
I'm thinking that the real answer is for us to participate in or found groups or clubs to address survival strategies in our own neighborhoods. Its going to take local solutions, and there is strength to be found with our neighbors, families and friends.
Bob Ebersole
"superfluous" sidewalks? Maybe superfluous now, but how about in fifteen or twenty years.
To make a suburb livable, I'd put sidwalks high on the list. Livable towns or cities have sidewalks. Sterile suburbs almost never do.
Whoa,O Pirate King of the North.
In my neighborhood we have a ten foot sidewalk on each side of the street, a fifty foot street, an alley and half the houses have driveways and sidewalks from the doors to the streets, plus some back yard sidewalks. We have about 300% more paving than we need even with one car per adult, and we're going to need even less with only bicycles and scooters plus light rail.
Less pavement will help cool off, and we could build raised beds on the superfluous paving. I'm pro sidewalks and streets, but do we have to provide enough pavement for a four lane highway in front of every house? We could all have big gardens just on the wasted space.
Bob Ebersole
Hello Oilmanbob,
Although I back Alan Drake 100%, I speculate some neighborhood areas may never have the standard size RRs & TOD [the spine & limbs], hopefully my narrow-gauge minitrains and eventual subsequent shift to the same-gauge SpiderWebRiding can be [the ribs] to help further extend postPeak transport infrastructure for optimal relocalization of people and resource flows.
It takes much less energy, powered or human, to remove asphalt compared to concrete. Quickly bolting minitrain track to your wide sidewalks sounds ideal, and it will be higher than normal asphalt street level during rainstorms. The former paved areas as gardens will also get the additional runoff from the concrete.
Old photos of a beautiful mini-train [I hope it is not now recycled into a couple of Hummers!]:
http://www.monon.monon.org/sobendpixs4/tn_03-26storyland-train2.jpg
http://www.monon.monon.org/sobendpixs4/tn_03-26storyland-train1.jpg
Bigger versions of these photos clickable at this link:
http://www.monon.monon.org/sobend/storyland.html
Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?
Hi Bob
We've already got some streetcars in town, and they run on a narrower guage than regular RR, but not the mini-train you've discussed. They run down streets set in asphalt, but have individual diesel motors on the cars. The tracks make streets bumpy, but I wish we had more, am currently lobbying our city council to extend them.
Our streetcars go from downtown to the Seawall, along the seawall and back downtown, then about 1 mile west to University of Texas Medical Branch, then south on 4Th st to the seawall. What I'd like to see is the streetcars up and down the Seawall, down 61st past the grocery stores, then west on S to Moody Gardens, then back downtown. This would hook up all the major tourist hotels and the two main convention centers with downtown and the Medical Center and run past virtually all the shopping. It would really help people get to work, as well as be very useful for our tourists.
Galveston is a small city where a lot of people get by without automobiles. There's busses, and lots of bicycles, and even people riding in the streets in electric wheelchairs. Its a lot more civilized than Houston, where very few people get around without cars. Its about 7 miles NE-SW and about 2 miles at the widest between the bay and the Gulf. And no damn shopping malls!
Bob Ebersole
Bob, I have 300 yards of gill net that I bought from a mullet netter when the state outlawed the practice of netting mullet. I also have a skiff outfitted with oar locks and a trolling motor that I now use for gigging flounder and plugging for reds, trout and snook. I figure on using the gill net in the future when there are no game wardens around to bother me. Even now when I come in with a good catch I can sell all the fish that I dont want right at the dock. I also have a good locally made shrimp cast net but that thing will work a man to a frazzle.
BTW, I know you are very near sea level...does it make you a tad nervous?
River, do you live in Florida? We don't eat mullet in Texas, although I've never understood why. Give me a decent recipe and I'll try 'em.
I've got a 17 ft. seawall between my house and the gulf. In 104 years its never been topped by a storm surge. My house survived the 1900 hurricane, so I feel fairly safe. As far as the ocean level rising from global warming, I'm 55 and plan on being dead, but my 1st floor is 11 ft above sea level.
I've got a kayak, but mostly wade fish for trout, reds, drum and flounder using piggie perch and small mullets. Sometimes I buy fresh dead shrimp and catch whiting and croakers, or if the water's clear enough pompano and spanish mackeral. But Ill eat any kind of fish, I really like gar.
Bob Ebersole
Bob, Yeah, I live in Florida. The secret of good eating mullet is fresh, fresh, fresh. Also, get them out of salty and clear water, not after they have been hanging out in brackish/half fresh water. Straight out of the water, gut em, heads off, scale em, batter of your choice...I prefer Cottin Pickin cornbread mix which has some flower in it w/a little salt and pepper. Toss them into some VERY hot oil or Crisco of your choice, eat them. I have a heavy two burner Cajun Cooker that really puts out some heat and two big cast iron dutch ovens (without lids). Mullet are very good...I think they are in the carp family. I have eaten all kinds of carp. When I was a kid we netted a carp from the Ouichita River in La that we called a Buffalo, you might be familiar with them. I spent almost four years in Japan and ate lots of carp there. Many Japanese families that live in the country have a small ponds in their yards that they raise big carp/goldfish in and they are good. In Japan I ate a lot of broiled and steamed carp that were also great.
Around here we gig flounder at night with a light strapped on the head...like a frog gigging light. We pole the skiff slowly and quietly. They are hard to see till you get used to looking for their eyes, which is usually the only part of them that are not buried by sand.
We use pig fish here to catch Gator Trout...around here they call the trout over ten pounds Gator Trout, but Reds are my favorite. I take individual Red fillets and lay them on a heavy layer of fresh spinach leaves with a sheet of heavy metal foil underneath, squeeze fresh Persian Lime Juice (tree in my back yard) on the fillet, ladel a big portion of homemade salsa over the fillet, seal the foil, and bake for a few minutes till the fish flakes but the spinach is not burned, fillet steams inside the sealed foil. Very good. Like you, I eat any kind of fish. If you can get some Persian Limes I think you will really like them. They are very fragrant and have a great taste, not at all like store bought limes.
I also like good Mexican food and since we have lots of Mexicans around here there are lots of good Mexican restaurants. I cant think of any kind of good food that I dont like.
I remember throwing away mullet when in Florida. Then years later I was in Greece and ate them at a small seaside taverna. There the fresh mullet were gutted, and then grilled over charcoal. Salt, pepper and lemon. Yum. I was amazed at how tasty they were and regretted tossing back so many of them years ago!
Hello Oilmanbob,
I don't really know anything technical about trains, I leave that to Alan Drake and expert others. But it would be interesting to know the specifics of a minitrain like in the linked photos: weight of loco and cars, pax/mileage per btu, speed & acceleration, cost & weight of track, maintenance costs, engine HP & torque [gas,diesel,steam,or electric], etc, then how it compares to a full size RR and/or mass-trans train. That way a postPeak city or suburban region would then be able to determine the economic crossover point; when sufficient 'spine and limbs' are attained, then evolve the extended 'ribs' for the rest of the area.
Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?
Bob,
I agree with you about Friendswood and the other communities around the south eastern fringe of Houston. I once entertained moving there after I was involved in building a petrochemical complex in Bayport. Many of our people lived in Clear Lake City along with the spacemen, but I didn't like it at all, despite the good sailing. Fortunately I was able to stay in New Jersey until I could get back to New England.
Friendswood wouldn't be the only place in trouble, but the area north of the airport around The Woodlands is also very vulnerable for the reasons you cite.
My own opinion is that areas in the south like my native Kentucky or Virginia have a good chance - temperate climates, still lots of good agricultural land and somewhat livable small cities not too close to the Interstates.
And Kingwood, Cypress, Jersey Village, Katy, Sugarland, Missouri City, Pearland-Houston has at least 1/2 of the population in over-leveraged suburbs. Its not quite as bad as L.A., but close enough. Dallas is even worse than Houston. I don't know where they all came from, maybe the Republican Party has a secret cloning facility. Fetch me a tinfoil hat!
Bob Ebersole
Couldn't agree more. One of the many reasons I want to get the hell out of Spring (North Houston, by the airport) just as soon as is humanly possible. This place is Exhibit A in any case against suburbia.
--
When no-one around you understands
start your own revolution
and cut out the middle man
oilmanbob (Ebersole) wrote "I'm thinking that the real answer is for us to participate in or found groups or clubs to address survival strategies in our own neighborhoods."
I agree entirely. I think we will wait forever if we expect central governments to organise things that will be genuinely helpful in a post-peak situation. There are too many vested interests, too many lobbies, too much fear amongst politicians at that level of telling (most) people what they don't want to hear.
There are plenty of examples of these things such as Transition Towns which are spreadling virally in UK (though it remains to be seen what difference they will realy make), Willits and plenty of others in USA.
Whether any individual community survives will not only depend on building local relationships with a sustainable social contract, it will also depend heavily on access to local, sustainable, and sufficient physical resources relative to the population.
People living in the middle of a desert, like Phoenix, AZ, or Las Vegas, NV, should take note.
And, yes, Leanan, you do an outstanding, exemplary job of putting together the Drumbeats, and I wonder how you manage to not be depressed with all dire news you sift through. :)
There's a book on "Suburban Renewal" (my term): Superbia: 31 Ways to Create Sustainable Neighborhoods, by Daniel D. Chiras and David Wann. Available cheap on Amazon ($16 USD). I have a copy but haven't read much of it.
Eventually these laws against bees, chickens, ungulates, and even clotheslines (yes!) will fizzle in an instant, if anyone has the energy to enforce them in the first place. Bet that comes to pass even in a mild Powerdown.
But not the colour Purple in Kanata Ontario:
http://www.canadaka.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=127
A friend of mine wants to make some bumper stickers that say, simply, "legalize clotheslines". Anybody else want some such?
Yes, maybe they could be sold thru this site as a TOD fundraiser - or for ASPO- USA. I would buy one. It's a pet peeve. We hang everything, while our neighbors are running a hot dryer indoors with AC blasting!!
We are allowed to have clotheslines as long as they are not visible to our neighbors or from the street. That is not a problem in our neighborhood for almost everyone has tall shadowbox cypress fencing in their back yards.
One thing I would like to have is a goat to keep the grass down but that is not allowed here...yet.
Virtually All CCRs in California actually ban hanging clothes!!
The are prohibited from banning solar panels, but can prohibit solar clothes drying!
Crazy, I say.
Why? How can they ban it? Don't you have private property in the USA?
Many planned communities impose covenants that limit what you can do with your property. If you buy there, you agree to the covenants.
I grew up near Montgomery Village. As I recall, you had to repaint from a limited palette of colors, you couldn't put up storm doors, bird feeders, bird baths or tv antennae; you couldn't park a vehicle in your driveway if it had a business sign on it (unless it was a govt car with tiny lettering); you couldn't park your boat or RV in your yard; forget about additions; limited choices of fence designs; and no hanging laundry.
"Planned communities".
Maybe you should introduce plan economy too?
Do you live in the USA or in the USSR?
Sheesh.
Planned communities can be dismal, but are not limited to the US and USSR. In the UK they call them "New Towns" and I'm sure they exist in Europe, too. When someone plans a few hundred houses, or a shopping center or an office park, that is ordinary development. When they plan all three, and to carefully define the infrastructure that links them, that starts to be a planned community. New Urbanism is essentially community planning that is intended to be an improvement over older, somewhat sterile planned communities.
Lets hope so. This is insane:
Woman jailed for 'neglected' lawn
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6282348.stm
Perhaps civilisation has already collapsed and we just haven't noticed it yet.
Triumvirate of collapse - Economy, Ecosystem, Energy
A likely more detailed and accurate account (than from the BBC), from the major Utah newspaper:
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_6319911
Sounds like a somewhat insecure or inexperienced officer didn't know how to act in this situation.
Sounds like they've got way too many cops in Utah if they have time for this B.S.
Bob Ebersole
Let's see. No money for the lawn, but plenty for the RV: