<DrumBeat: August 13, 2007 The Oil Drum DrumBeat: August 14, 2007>

49 comments on Energize America - two years on

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Jerome a Paris on August 13, 2007 - 12:50pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

This is not about punishing oil companies (small or big). Just about re-creating a levle palying field for all energy sources and eliminate subsidies that encourage over-use and over-production of preciosu resources. I don't think that any support of any kind will be need for aly player in the oil industry pretty soon the way things are going.

I will never understand Americans' enthusiasm to burn as quickly as possible the last few drops of oil under their ocntrol rather than husbanding them and hoarding them for the long term by burning (less of) other countries' oil.

But oil subsidies, visible and invisible need to be made explicit and killed. Full stop.

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oilmanbob on August 13, 2007 - 2:50pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Jerome,
A lot of the Daily Kos is about punishing oil companies. I don't work offshore or in the states with acreage which is set aside, never will. But I think tertiary development of abandoned onshore oil could add 500,000-1,000,000 barrels of oil per dayday, and if you slow this down there will never be the men to develop this resouce. We've got to eat too.

The redevelopment will ease the peak, but it will never change geological facts. I just want to get some old fields from 10% to 20% of the original oil in place produced to something like the 50% in modern fields. And, to be perfectly frank and selfish, I want to get rich on this, and eat in the mean time.

No, its not a sutainable option. But we need transition fuel in the US.

Bob Ebersole

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Leanan on August 13, 2007 - 3:18pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

But with the price of oil high and getting higher...couldn't you develop these wells without subsidies, and still get rich?

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oilmanbob on August 13, 2007 - 8:41pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

leanan, I don't want subsidies, my ideas are very economic with out them But, when people talk about oil company ripoffs and punishing oil companies it puts an atmosphere that scares legitimate investors. More than anything else, I want decent honest work that pays well. But you saw that column about ExxonMobil being a Natzi company that you linked to last Thursday or Friday. Its sewer talk, sounds like an excuse for destroying the oil business.

The only thing that's different in the oil business that from most businesses is the Depletion Allowance, which is also given to mines and to timber. As a reasonable compromise I would suggest limiting the depletion to 100% of the actual costs of a well, with the excess depletion transferable from uneconomic new wells to profitable wells. Or, to get depletion you must have current new or workover investments equal to the amount taken in depletion.

Another thing that people are calling a subsidy is writing off 3D seismic. Any company that does any research and development gets to write it off. Why should oil companies be any different? If they want to take it away from all industries, fine, take away the write off. But, if you want to leave it for them, leave it for oil companies.

But, this is a little known investment secret. If some promoter talks about tax shelters before he tells you how long it is until you get your m0ney back or what kind of profits you can expect, take a hike. Make an investment if the returns are good. Expect to pay taxes. Tax shelters are rip-offs. That doesn't mean you shouldnt have them, just don't expect to ride like a tick on the stomach of society
Bob Ebersole

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A Siegel on August 13, 2007 - 4:06pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

"A lot of the Daily Kos is about punishing oil companies" ...

Have to say that I simply don't see it.

First, Daily Kos has something like 20,000 comments and 250-300 posts per day. Do 1 percent of those deal with oil companies? I bet that overstates the case. So, what is "a lot"? And, of that <1%, how much is about "punishment"?

But, when it comes to Energize America, there is a real concern about positioning the nation to deal with Peak Oil and to move toward a track to deal with Global Warming and GHG emissions.

There is a desire to level the playing field between different energy sources.

Now is that about "punishing oil companies"? If you choose to read it that way, I can't stop you.

But, I have to say, in the two years of discussion, 1000s of emails, 10,000s of comments, 100s of diaries/posted discussions, I don't recall a single one that discussed "punishment". (Probably, if we searched the 10,000s of comments, there would be examples, but this certainly was/is not a driving motivator for me nor, from any of my recollection, the Energize America community.)

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Engineer-Poet on August 14, 2007 - 12:42am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Bob, I was a participant in many of those discussions over a year-plus.  In that time, there was NO hint of any attempt to scapegoat oil companies in particular, or fossil fuel interests in general.

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49 comments on Energize America - two years on

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