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56 comments on Open Letter to Duncan Clarke
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56 comments on Open Letter to Duncan Clarke
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So there I was, reading along, enjoying a nice little tit for tat between Strahan and Clarke, when I hit these sentences:
This view is held not only by ‘peak oil’ forecasters, but also major oil industry consultancies such PFC Energy, and even by notable opponents of the idea of an early global peak: the International Energy Agency, Shell and ExxonMobil – whose CEO Rex Tillerson told me recently that non-OPEC would be all over in “two to three years”.
Well I damm near fell out of my chair! Tillerson, THE Rex Tillerson of ExxonMobil SAID THAT?!
Well, not exactly, in fact, not nearly.
Here is the actual whole page from Strahan’s website:
http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=29
Here, according to Strahan himself, is Mr.Tillerson’s arguement, given in quotation marks by Strahan:
“We don’t do peak oil calculations, because the problem with the whole peak oil debate is that people have to assume they know how much is in the container in order to calculate the peak. And as we’ve learned over time, over the last 15 years, the estimates of what’s in the container, largely by governmental agencies, have gone up three times.”
“I think the ability to continue to grow volumes of non-OPEC production substantially is very challenging. So the question is more how long can you sustain with some modest growth, because we do in our outlook see some continued growth in non-OPEC in the near term, the next two to three years. So then the question is how long can the non-OPEC supply maintain a plateau so to speak, and that in some sense is a function of access to non-OPEC countries”.
Mr Tillerson insists that if access to resources improved - particularly to federal lands in the US, or in a more stable Russia - the situation could be transformed.”
----
So Tillerson takes the traditional oil industry line, that (a) it’s about access, and (b) no one knows how much oil your starting with, so estimating the how much is left in the ground is not workable i.e., all the conjecture about being 54%, 42%, or 20% through the world supply is conjecture, educated conjecture perhaps, but conjecture nonetheless. Due to the volumes of oil we are discussing, small amounts of measurement error could mean several decades of difference in peak timing.
This is interesting by the way, because it is very close to arguments I brought about almost a year ago on TOD, regarding the URR numbers, which were of course ignored. Then Robert Rapier made a set of arguments about HL modeling, and even given his very high standing on TOD was pretty much chopped to pieces with no real answer to his arguments, centering around HL modeling.
Now of course, Strahan declares Tilerson wrong on all counts, which is his right, but makes his case with an astoundingly arrogant sentence,
“Apparently Mr Tillerson has not yet read The Last Oil Shock, where I explain all this.”
We will lay aside how likely it is that a major oil company executive is going to accept Mr. Strahan as his guiding source for information about the status of world oil supplies (pardon me while I roll on the floor) but it is also apparent that Mr. Strahan has never read “How To Win Friends and Influence People.”
Let me make it clear that I take no interest in the spitting contest between Duncan Clarke and David Strahan except as entertainment value. If I had to bet my money, I would bet they will both be wrong by considerable margins.
And despite Strahan's assurance that all answers reside in his book, the arguments concerning URR and how to extablish them rage on.
But the insertation of a wild claim such as “non-OPEC would be all over in “two to three years” into the mouth of a major oil executive is exactly the kind of thing that will cause people to percieve you as, what were Strahans words, quoting Clarke?, “a delusional cult whose advocates are compared to “millenarians making their survival plans; occult groups searching for final redemption; even alien encounter schools promising lift-off to distant planets for the chosen and the faithful”. As a concept peak oil is obviously swivel-eyed and writes in green ink, you insinuate, because of the kind of people who attend its conferences.”
It also explains why people who have risen to the standing that Rex Tillerson, love him or hate him, has in the oil industry are usually clever enough not to talk to writers such as Strahan.
Of course, book titles such as “The Last Oil Shock: A Survival Guide to the Imminent Extinction of Petroleum Man.” can’t help....gee, nothing millenarian or survivalist about that huh?
Remember, that on Strahans OWN website, he is talking peak, which means around half through the known URR if you accept his model, right? How soon is “Petroleum Man’s imminent extinction if we assume that much (about half) remaining oil in the ground? Sure, it may get very hard to get, it may get very expensive, the poor may be driven or starved out, but Petroleum Man with money and power is going to be with us for the rest of our natural lives, peak now, peak later or no peak (in our lifetime).
Why do the loudest spokespeople for the Peak cause always take the most hyperbolic and radical positions, and essentially put a beany with a propeller on their head for the adversaries to easily poke fun at?
I used to recommend friends to come over to TOD, but I am being honest, I stopped doing it. These are people I do business with. I couldn't afford the risk that they would run into some of the over the top weirdness. Now, if they would land on the good stuff, Stuart Staniford, Robert Rapier, or some of the brilliant technical work, yes. so I send them the original sources of the good stuff. :-)
Guilt by association is a real thing, at the conferences and on the web.
And the day that Rex Tillerson actually says out of his own mouth " that non-OPEC would be all over in “two to three years”, even if he KNEW it was the absolute truth, I will throw a copy of Strahan's book in the ole knapsack and head for the hills.
RC
Remember we are only one cubic mile from feedom
(post not spell checked or carefully proofed, I have wasted too much time already)
Much as I sympathise with your position, in this case I believe it was a simple (but quite dramatic) word omission - the word "Growth" after "non-OPEC".
Strahan's previous sentence is "It is almost unanimously agreed that oil production in the entire world except for OPEC will peak soon after 2010." It's clear that the context of the Tillerson quote is the end of non-OPEC growth soon after 2010, something he's mentioned several times. Whether growth is arrested for above ground factors or geology is largely immaterial.
I also don't give much weight to arguments of "plateaus". A plateau is a peak, the highest level attained. Whether the peak rate is maintained for 6 months or 6 years is again largely immaterial. The key point in my mind is an end of energy supply growth.
You just don't get it. YOU DON'T GET IT! We're gonna DIE! DIE! THE END IS NIGH! YOU'RE IN DENIAL! YOU DIDN'T READ THE APOCALIPSE? IT'S ALL EXPLAINED THERE. TH...
...oh sorry, was havin a bad dream :)
luis, don't burn through all your popcorn before the show starts.
That's the best damn one-liner I've heard in a long time.
Crap, if the show is about dying anyway, why shouldn't I eat all my popcorns first?
Cuz you might choke, and I don't want to do the Heimlich on my day off.
Cassandra D Rat
I'd also nit pick this quote as well. The original Petro Intel Weekly report mentioned, I believe, 49 billion barrels of proved & probable.
Indeed but that isn't the source of the quote.
Thank you for the clarification on that. It was my understanding that last year's KOC report was proved & possible (and was the source for the open letter) with the 24 billion barrels representing proven... or something like that. I do know that I can hardly wait to see what OPEC comes up with at their September meeting. Sure looks like SA will keep production flat. Guess I shouldn't have bought that used Hummer (just kidding).
I Wonder what a 75% reduction in all the OPEC countries that cook booked their entries would mean....
Well, it's very nice that we get to have a solid sociopath's reply to this letter. I will remind everyone with this gem of a quote from this friendly fellow.
'the poor may be driven or starved out, but Petroleum Man with money and power is going to be with us for the rest of our natural lives, peak now, peak later or no peak'
I stopped reading what you wrote right there. Your attitude disgusts me, and I cannot believe it pays to listen to the wishes, or arguments, of those without conscience.
I can only guess that you dream die Nacht and der Tag away, contemplating how wonderful it will be to be the Uber Peak Oilman standing on your Hummer while the poor retches kneel before your will.
So many people, far too often my fellow US citizens, minimalize the reality of mass starvation, and slavery, that will likely occur if we do nothing.
For those who don't mind that they could have aided to avoid that suffering, all the talk in the world on this topic cannot be useful. May famine and disease pass you and yours, but to minimalize it when it happens to others is simply inhuman.
SNORE
You talk bigmouth, but I can see you can't even detect sarcasm and irony on your own radar.
The statement I made which upset apwall21 was this:
"the poor may be driven or starved out, but Petroleum Man with money and power is going to be with us for the rest of our natural lives, peak now, peak later or no peak'
I see that not as a moral judgement on my part but a statement of fact. It will be true. What I think of the fact is a seperate argument. But the fantasy that petroleum is going to disappear overnight is just that, a fantasy. The fantasy that the power and wealth aspect of petroleum is going to disappear is just that, a fantasy. Make of it what you will.
You want to be the moralist? Then what can we do that is moral, and not only that, good for the world, AND good for the United States? I have said it many times. For me, the goal is not about "proving" peak, or disproving peak. It is not about getting to crow "we were right, see, we were right!"
The goal is reducing consumption of fossil fuel. That is IT. That is THE HOLY GRAIL for my purposes of the whole discussion.
I drive a 1982 Diesel. I am in Kentucky and have not turned on the air conditioning once this year despite 102 degree weather. I need to do more. MUCH more. But my current financial situation for the moment limits me to the above. My current financial situation ALSO limits my fossil fuel consumption. But I am doing better on reducing fossil fuel consumption that most of my friends and associates. I need to find ways to do MORE. The Americans TALK about what someone else should be doing. But the United States can help relieve the burden on the poor, the burden on the environment, the burden the world, and the burden on the United States nation by REDUCING FOSSIL FUEL CONSUMPTION. THAT'S IT. Technology, city planning, and design of products and homes can all be directed to that goal. It's the one thing that can be good for us, and also the right thing to do.
Dream of the "Extinction of Petroleum Man"? You keep dreaming. I don't need to see his extinction. I have a taller mountain to climb, and so does America and the world in SIMPLY REDUCING CONSUMPTION. Reducing the first 10% is hard. The second 10% gets harder. By the third and the fourth 10 percentile, make no mistake, we are talking REAL WORK.
That is what will "have aided to avoid that suffering" as you call it. Idiotic titles depicting a fantasy neo-primitive dream by writers like Strahan will have contributed nothing.
RC
Remember, we are only one cubic mile from freedom
Good post and response. However, you did not address the question of whether or not you "you dream die Nacht and der Tag away, contemplating how wonderful it will be to be the Uber Peak Oilman"
And...?