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228 comments on DrumBeat: August 14, 2007

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Leanan on August 14, 2007 - 9:49am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry reading that one. I guess the idea the economic growth is the problem is incomprehensible to the average American.

I'm starting to understand why the Easter Islanders' reaction to tightening resource constraints was to build more and bigger statues...

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PeakOil Tarzan on August 14, 2007 - 10:00am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Yeah, and I loved this one:

"This is wonderful to see, and America stands ready to assist on technology, to assist in innovative financing and assist in standards and practices so that together we can grow our economies ... in a more sustainable way," he said.

Ha!Ha! Is this guy trying to be funny? Because if he is, he ought to have his own show. "...assist on technology?" The country that is still fighting to hang onto it's fleet of 12 mpg SUVs?

"...assist in innovative financing?" Hasn't the world had about enough of America's "innovative financing" of late?!?

The guy's a laugh a minute.

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jokuhl on August 14, 2007 - 1:20pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

See: 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man'

Interview on Democracy Now!
http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski53.html

" JOHN PERKINS: ... The first real economic hit man was back in the early 1950's, Kermit Roosevelt, the grandson of Teddy, who overthrew of government of Iran, a democratically elected government, Mossadegh’s government who was Time's magazine person of the year; and he was so successful at doing this without any bloodshed – well, there was a little bloodshed, but no military intervention, just spending millions of dollars and replaced Mossadegh with the Shah of Iran..."

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Bench on August 14, 2007 - 3:02pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Then read "Will the real economic hit men please stand up?". Regarding "Democracy Now!", I highly recommend "What's wrong with Amy Goodman?" and "The Empress Has No Clothes".

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jokuhl on August 14, 2007 - 3:44pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Thanks for the links, would you mind making a bit of your point here and now, for those not without the time to follow the links.

I am aware from a friend who has shot video for them, that there's no small irony in suffering poor labor conditions while working on a news program that advocates for labor rights, among other things.. just the same, if you have something to add, why not say some of it in your own words?

Bob

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Bench on August 14, 2007 - 5:56pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Why spoil the surprise?

No, I'm happy to elaborate. I could write tomes. In fact, I started to before I decided to cut it down to this:

I saw the interview with Perkins. I donated money. I received a copy of the book. I remember thinking, "He said the CIA approved the book. What could he possibly reveal other than filling in details of the horrible deeds the U.S. Empire and its corporate surrogates have committed over the last century?" Months later I saw the piece in From The Wilderness. The very first paragraph answers that:

A "limited hangout" is a partial confession, a mea culpa, if you will, that leaves the essence of a crime or covert reality hidden. Because it includes some small part of the truth, the limited hangout is irresistibly attractive to dissidents and political critics whose thirst for such truth makes them jump at the dangled scraps. Once the system's watchdogs are busy chewing on the limited hangout, the guilty players can go about their illegal business for a new round of unaccountable, semi-secret mayhem.

"Limited hangout" is a term I learned a couple of years ago, in the context of 9/11 being an inside job. I do not mean to start a flame war but I will just point out that by "inside job" I do not mean "Bush did it." I am so sick of that worn out strawman.

In any case, the pieces on Amy Goodman are largely about 9/11. But there's another subject she avoids, peak oil. That actually offends me more than her handling of 9/11. There are any number of reasons to impeach and/or prosecute members of this administration; 9/11 and the subsequent cover-up are but a part. Peak oil, on the other hand, is, with the possible exception of white male capitalist patriarchy, the best kept secret from the general population. It isn't even "debunked" in the mainstream media; it's still in the "First, they ignore you" phase. To the best of my knowledge the phrase "peak oil" has yet to be uttered on any mainstream TV channel. If someone knows otherwise, please do tell.

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Donal on August 14, 2007 - 8:47pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I listen to DN fairly often. They do talk about Peak Oil and matter-of-factly, at that.

Has Global Oil Production Reached Maximum Capacity? A Debate on Peak Oil

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/28/1439240

Blood of the Earth: Dilip Hiro on the Battle for the World’s Vanishing Oil Resources

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/31/1543222

They also hosted a debate between the Loose Change conspiracy theorists and the Popular Mechanics debunkers. Neither side covered themselves with glory.

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NZSanctuary on August 14, 2007 - 9:24pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Peak Oil has definitely been mentioned in MSM here. The New Zealand Listener (weekly mainstream national mag) ran a series of articles in their May 26-June 1 issue on the green revolution, one of which (pgs 23-24) raised Peak Oil as a major problem.

It was particularly interesting to a see a senior lecturer in mechanical engineering who had made a career looking at the possibility of a hydrogen economy, saying that it just wouldn't work, even though they wanted to convince themselves it would.

"You can never solve a problem on the level on which it was created."
Albert Einstein

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jokuhl on August 15, 2007 - 6:50am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Yeah, I'm sorry, Bench, but while DN has covered 911truth a couple times, as the first article you linked (Will the real economic hitmen please stand up?) suggested was what journalists were overlooking BECAUSE of these 'limited hangout' examples like 'Confessions of an EHM ..' But they cover a respectable range of topics, regularly touching on Darfur, on Immigration and related Farm and Labor issues in the US, on Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.. Israel/Palestine, etc.. They have had Robert Fiske from the Independent reporting out of Beirut (who is great) a number of times, getting more history, context and perspective on Middle East stories than anything you'll find in much of the soft, gray middle or the flaming right-wing end of the media.

You should listen a couple more times and see if you don't find some stories you actually appreciate someone covering.

Bob

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Donal on August 14, 2007 - 5:46pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

What's wrong with Amy is that she has a difficult choice.

Either she can try to be impartial and let the flacks spin away, or she can challenge them. Jon Stewart spoke about trying to get a straight answer out of Ari Fleischer. I listen to all sorts of talk shows and the fact is that many guests are better at obfuscation than journalists are at cutting through it.

" ... almost never does Amy Goodman or her guest dig deeper, connecting the dots with the current epidemic of disappearing pensions, the disastrous housing bubble which is in the process of bursting, the ramifications of the new bankruptcy law, widespread doubling of monthly credit card payments, and a plethora of issues that signal global economic collapse. "

Huh? I've posted DN links on most of these topics right here on TOD.

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bmcnett on August 14, 2007 - 6:54pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Let's not single out Amy Goodman for punishment. Like every star in far-left media, her status depends on what far-left consumers think of her. If she were to say things that make her audience feel bad, they would tune her out.

Overshoot, collapse and dieoff make people feel bad. That's why they don't talk about it on the radio or TV. If they did, people would change the channel. Even when Jared Diamond's on TV, 99% of the time he is very careful to avoid saying anything too sad.

The purpose of far-left media is to catch people who can't digest mainstream media lies, and keep them fed with media that's a little more truthful. Without really showing them what's behind the curtain.

This isn't a conspiracy. It's a product. People need to feel good, and the far-left media provides a product that enables some of them to feel good.

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Darwinian on August 14, 2007 - 7:57pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Bmcnett, I agree with everything you say except your very stupid reference to "the far-left media".

Ignorance gone to seed!

The far-right media, Fox, is just as guilty as anyone. Nay, they are by far the guiltiest. And the middle or the road media, NBC, is equally guilty. And CNBC is as far right as any of them. They are almost, but not quite, as guilty as Fox. Everything you get from CNBC is all peaches and cream.

The Far-Right Media are the ones who would have us believe that the free market will solve all our problems. The Far-Right Media are the ones who will book no dissent to the idea that the great American way of life is in no danger as long as we keep electing on good republican politicans to to solve the world's problems.

The fact of the matter is all the media downplays the problem, left, right and center. No one wants to hear bad news and no one wants to deliver bad news. This is one issue that is truly bipartisan. But if you hate the left you will blame the far-left and if you hate the right you will blame the far-right.

Stop being so childish Bm-whatever, and get it right.

Ron Patterson

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bmcnett on August 14, 2007 - 8:30pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Ron,

I agree with you completely, the far-right media is simply evil.

All media are guilty of whitewashing the news, but the far-left media should know better.

They spend so much energy carefully peeling away the layers of propaganda from mainstream and far-right media, and they do a good job of it. But then they stop peeling before mentioning limits to growth.

This lulls a lot of smart people into feeling that the limits-to-growth people are a zany fringe.

I'm not the sharpest fellow, and they had me convinced for ten or fifteen years that the world's biggest problem is the evil rich.

The evil rich are bad, no question about it. But overpopulation and resource depletion are even worse. Wish I could have heard about those fifteen years ago.

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Darwinian on August 14, 2007 - 8:47pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Bmcnett, sorry I did not mean to lose it but I have been hearing this far-left media crap for years and it is a crock. The media is left, it is right and it is center. And right now I think that it is more right than left. At least I know the financial news networks, Bloomberg and CNBC are far right. And these are the stations that should be addressing peak oil and they are not.

Ron

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Twilight on August 14, 2007 - 10:42am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Maybe we should try that statue thing. We could carve giant SUVs and set them around our cities.

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karlof1 on August 14, 2007 - 12:51pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Right! And use giant styrofoam blocks as the media!

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Ash23 on August 14, 2007 - 7:38pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

God Lord Man! Think of what you are saying!

Statues of SUVs carved out of old grow redwoods, at 2:1 scale, is the only sane option!

Death to the styrofoam infidels!

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Cid Yama on August 14, 2007 - 8:38pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Are You suggesting the US will turn into a Cargo Cult?

I can see primitive post-crash Americans building fake Wal-Marts and waiting for them to be filled.

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Dryki on August 14, 2007 - 9:00pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Well, yeah, sounds about right to me.

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Ash23 on August 14, 2007 - 10:07pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

It's not much of a stretch, is it?

Cargo Cult Capitalism: america's waking dream!

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228 comments on DrumBeat: August 14, 2007

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