Finance guy opens two hedge funds. He bets all the money of one on Black and all the money of the other on Red. He takes twenty percent of the profit from the fund that suceeds and closes the fund that fails. He knows exactly what he is doing.
Consider the home buyer. He borrows the closing costs and 105% of the price of the house. Lives cheaper than rent for three years on the teaser rate. Then gives the house back to the bank. His credit rating is ruined but he was never creditworthy in the first place. He knows exactly what he is doing.
Consider the banker. He lend the money. Take out their fees. Then sell the loan to the hedge funds. He knows exactly what he is doing.
Everybody made money on the merry-go-round. Now that the ride has stopped, they'll go off and do something else laughing all the way. The next dot-com.
Well, it isn't true that everyone made money. Someone has to be left holding the bag when the smart money gets out. In the case of hedge funds one of the biggest bag holders is pension funds. Many of the largest hedge funds have a 24% pension fund interest.
So, once again, the little guy got left holding the bag. And this wild ride is far from over.
No. You are part of the group that gets to pay the piper.
Being a decent person investing in a corrupt society doesn't pay, because even if just 30% of the assets around you fall through the floor, yours falls with them even if you did everything right.
The sub prime borrowers are not the victims, they are the cornerstone of the force that causes your loss.
You can have a crack dealer on the corner, but he only becomes a problem when he has customers. Without customers he becomes a casualty.
REPENT I say! THE END IS NIGH! AKNOWLEDGE YOUR SINS AND REPENT, and your soul might not be damned FOREVER!
oh, you ignorants! Do you not know that hell BURNS FOR EVER AND EVER?! May God forgive you, for you have not known what you have been doing. May you all REPENT!, and thus be SAVED!
"Consider the home buyer...he knows exactly what he is doing."
I disagree with your scenario about the attitude of home buyers. It strikes me as too cavalier. Some people might be doing what you suggest, of course, but certainly not the majority. The difference between the average buyer and the finance guy or the banker is a big one. Most buyers' motivation is to have a home, and a mid-to-long term investment.
Most buyers have no idea how the financing really works. They are told in various ways (via books, as well as by mortgage sales folks) that it's EASY to get a mortgage. Thrilled they can have the chance to own a house, they sign on the dotted line. After all, if they are told the monthly payments will approximate their rent, why not do it?
Beyond the situation where someone has an adjustable rate that starts jumping higher, there are all other costs of owning real property. Ongoing maintenance costs, emergency repairs, increases in utility rates, increases in taxes, increases in additional necessary costs such as water and sewer and garbage pick up if those aren't included in local taxes. Let's see, then there's gas, food, and...
I guess I'm taking your comment personally because those are the things that are slamming me right now. I bought my current house three years ago (very low fixed rate - with a solid bank lender) and seven months later I lost my job. I was out of work for quite a long time and dipped into savings over and over to keep afloat. Now I have my sweet home (my third in 25 years) on the market and it's not a pretty picture.
My credit rating was STELLAR when I closed on this place, but now...well, I'm walking a tightrope.
I'm taking your comment personally ... months later I lost my job. I was out of work for quite a long time and dipped into savings to keep afloat.
Thanks for sharing that with us.
This is probably how decline and collapse of civilization is going to feel, personally, for each of us.
Suddenly. For no apparent reason. Your services are no longer required. Society has no room for you as a contributing member. You are no longer part of the mainstream. You have been cut to run on your own.
The place where you seek shelter; your home, quickly slips out of your hands ... and then you are out on the streets, homeless.
You get relabeled as a loitering vagrant, a rabid dog to be shot on sight. You have only yourself to blame. Do not cast mud on those who lured you into suburbitopia and who profited in the process. They are the white shirted angels who were merely doing "business" in the fair and square tradition. They are without fault. It's all yours to be enjoyed on an exclusive basis. Heads they win, tails you lose.
Suddenly. For no apparent reason. Your services are no longer required. Society has no room for you as a contributing member. You are no longer part of the mainstream. You have been cut to run on your own.
Also known as "manadatory retirement", which millions of us experience every year, good years and bad.
The fun part about being a Cassandra is you only have to be right once to get an "Infallible Oracle" brand on your forehead. You can be wrong time after time but that one time that the end really is nigh, you get all the babes.
I was unemployed for five years: 2000 through 2005.
Never had a home but lost all retirement savings.
Today I spit in the face of politicos, particularly republican ones, since I did everything society told me to do:
- stayed out of trouble
- didn't do drugs
- served in the military
- earned two college degrees.
So much for all of that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican bullshit.
I for one am ready for a reset to the American dream which in my world means the "Second American Revolution".
All I can say is hang in there and spit in the face of the bullshit artists like Robert. They know not of your pain, only their betterment at our expense!
as US corporations have hollowed out technical staff in favor of outsourced expertise
We complain here at TOD about Joe Sixpack being unaware of Peak Oil.
I wonder how many here are aware of this other phenomenon, namely, that being all you can be and getting an engineering degree is the new lie of our society?
Prole is not kidding. I work in a tech-affiliated field and see over the recent years how the engineering ranks have been decimated in the USA.
The big laugh is watching politicians (like Barak Obama on CSPAN this morning) extolling the virtues of getting a higher education and graduating more engineers in this country. He probably means well. Just doesn't have a clue.
Today, even getting an MBA is questionable as the financial remnants of our hollowed out economy begin to crumble under the stress.
I had a friend in law school whose brother graduated from Notre Dame with a an engineering degree and high honors. Could not find a job. Wound up going to DePaul law school.
Better that than settling everything the old fashion way ... by uncivil action, such as by a duel to the death.
But my point was not that. Rather; when they "all" graduate from law school, who is going to be their client? There won't be anybody else left.
While it is true that a single lawyer in a small town starves while two do well, the curve doesn't keep going that way. If the whole town is filled with nothing but lawyers, they're all unemployed.
Milton Friedman made the observation years ago that our economy was heading towards a unsustainable service economy where there would be two insurance salesman facing each other at a table and trying to sell each other insurance.
My records show it is time for us to meet and reassess your current insurance policy. We have many novel packages that will match with your evolving needs. We have a new post-peak plan called Catchusifucan which is ideally suited for your demographic.
I have an MS in Mechanical Engineering. When I started school in 1967 the LA Times had (no kidding) 100 pages of employment ads for engineers. Even though I don't look for work anymore I am amazed at how few engineering jobs are available in the SF Bay area. I suppose if your talents are in software or specialized EE areas you are employable but for mechanical types: head for China.
Ditto for Silicon Valley.
There was a time, before the 2001 dot.com bust when the Sunday paper was thicker than two telephone books because of all the help wanted sections.
Now it is an anorexic shadow of itself.
There aren't even the same number of regular advertisements.
Who are you going to advertise to? The unemployed engineers?
(Of course, part of the problem is that jobs, classifieds, etc. are now advertised on the internet rather than via newspapers which is why papers are dying. However, the general trend is still that all the hardware jobs are heading to China and all the software jobs to India and Romania. Silicon is no longer made in "Silicon" Valley. It's all made in China, Taiwan, Malaysia. We have "evolved" into a "new" economy thanks to globalization.)
I'm an underemployed engineer myself - Iowa State's computer science program, and now I work in that icky VoIP area. Its booming, even today, but I'm underworked due to disability. I have a mild case of Asperger's Syndrome - I look and act normal a good bit of the time, but I'm different enough in person that its caused me immense grief in employment.
A number of people posting here seem to have mentioned Asperger's. If there's ever a new demographic questionnaire done, that might be an interesting question for it. Could be that hyperanalytical people are disproportionately drawn here.
Or maybe not caring about social herding cues confers an advantage for 'black swan' type perceptions.
You can add me to the list. I definitely have ADHD and may have some kind of aspergers/high functioning autism. Or just have lousy social skills. In any case, one person said I have it and other people say I don't. People don't come to TOD if they think the solution to peak oil is to con some other poor bastard out of their oil.
I also have Asperger's. I have also noticed more and more those posting on this forum and others saying the same thing. I too have wondered what the percentage of "Aspies" or others on the Autism scale are represented on TOD. I do know that we with Asperger's tend to view the world differently than most.
Given the high maths involved, the aspect of this case being very complex, though very interesting, from a logical point of view, so counter-intuitive (from the business-as-usual standpoint), anti-social, and so fundamentally "big", I have no wonder at all that many "aspies" are interested in this subject. For me it is corroboration that it is such an interesting phenomenon...
I wonder how many here are aware of this other phenomenon, namely, that being all you can be and getting an engineering degree is the new lie of our society?
New lie? You think this is a new lie? You obviously haven't been around very long. Engineering is and has been a terrible career for anyone wanting steady income and security. I know engineers who spent half the 70s on unemployment after the aerospace crash. Every senior engineer I know from the 80s on has told me to get my MBA if I want a chance of staying with a company beyond the completion of a contract.
You're much better off becoming a plumber. Toilets always need unplugging and it's not a job that can be successfully outsourced to India (the trip charge is a deal killer!).
I'm right there with you. I was on one of those on the unemployment lines in the 70's (when the Vietnam war ended and there was no more of a need by our Great Society for engineers to calculate how much Butter is needed for lubing the Guns).
However ...
Do realize that every year our universities graduate a new litter of technology-armed graduates, salivating at the mouth, wagging their tails, and eager to serve their masters. The Market will provide.
You got a surplus of skilled engineers? That is one of the bottlenecks in the Swedish workforce. You dont happen to also have a surplus of skilled programmers, welders, plumbers, metal cutting machine operators, concrete workers and so on?
Its odd if skilled people cant get work, you ought to invest like mad in the energy sector and so on.
I'm right there with you since my life to date fits much the same profile. I also hold a BSEE and hope to be finishing an MSEE in a month or two. I tell myself the MSEE is for me, but I probably wouldn't be doing it if the company wasn't paying. Sometimes I think I should've spent all that time going out to get high and get laid.
As luck would have it I also work in the MI-complex. My idiot managers are throwing my skill, training, and intellect away on filling out Excel spreadsheets and adjusting sliders in MS Project.
To put things in perspective, I was working with Excel and drafting architectural plans in AutoCAD in middle school. I was designing and conducting my own mechanical and acoustic science experiments in high school. I helped design, build, and successfully field test cellular repeaters in college.
I get my passive-aggressive revenge on management by constantly showing up late and doing about 10 actual hours of their 'work' a week. Somehow I wound up with two cubicles, so I can almost always tell these pukes, "I was in the other building dude." If that fails, then "I was taking the Browns to the Super Bowl."
My friends and I find it physically painful to watch "The Office" on NBC. That's how accurate a picture it paints.
My idiot managers are throwing my skill, training, and intellect away on filling out Excel spreadsheets and adjusting sliders in MS Project.
Pay attention dude.
It's a "cost plus contract".
You're the cost and your managers are laughing all the way to the bank.
They are not "idiots".
Instead, you are Dilbert.
Why do you live in a cubicle (or two)?
Don't you deserve an office?
For heavens sake you have a BSEE degree!
P.S. When I was young, I too worked as a double E (with MS!) in the MI-complex. I was too dumb to understand that I was just cannon fodder for the cost plus contracts. They didn't want me to actually do good work; just to run up justifiable costs. That's your real job dude. Figure out how to charge Uncle Sam more without being caught.
I can still find work with my MSEE degree but now it has to be with military industrial companies prevented by the nature of their work from offshoring. I spent the first twenty years of my career making products people actually wanted to buy.
I think a science education is a very useful and scarce thing to have even if it doesn't directly lead to lifetime employment. There are already too many idiots out there. Why do people get liberal arts degrees? They think reading Shakespeare in the original Klingon makes them a better person.
I was unemployed for five years: 2000 through 2005.
Sorry to hear that.
Never had a home but lost all retirement savings.
May I ask why you never purchased a home?
Today I spit in the face of politicos, particularly republican ones, since I did everything society told me to do:
I got laid off in 1989, with a optical physics BS, I was underemployed for two years, then started my own buiness and now semi-retired at 45 years old.
Pulling myself by the boot-straps was good advice for me!
- stayed out of trouble
- didn't do drugs
- served in the military
- earned two college degrees.
Thank you for your serice. Sometimes it takes more than what you've outlined to succeed in life. You didn't buy a home, at time when homes were inexpensive, thus I suspect, but await the details, on your investments you made in the 90s.
Did you have a divorce in your recent past? That alone can break some people finanically.
So much for all of that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican bullshit.
Like I said above, worked out pretty good for me. The people I grew up with who didn't pull themselves up are the ones still living off of Mom and dad's kindness!
I for one am ready for a reset to the American dream which in my world means the "Second American Revolution".
Oh really? Notice how everyone is "ready" but they never actually do something about it? So you had some bad luck, what can I say since I don't know much about you, and you want to burn the barn down? Do you realize that would ruin many millions of lives who haven't had your bad fortune?
Or do you not care?
All I can say is hang in there and spit in the face of the bullshit artists like Robert. They know not of your pain, only their betterment at our expense!
I'm sorry you are so bitter. I will say a prayer for you that things will turn around.
[The system] worked out pretty good for me. The people I grew up with who didn't pull themselves up are the ones still living off of Mom and dad's kindness!
That's the way it is with winners and losers in any zero sum "game". The winners are convinced everything was fair and balanced. The losers are convinced the playing field was tilted.
Not only are these "winners" convinced of the validity of the system, but it was their talent alone that led to their success. Never mind any luck or uncontrollable circumstances being involved such as being in the right place at the right time, having the right mentor or friends, or even having the right name or color of skin. Can’t have any doubt as to the merit of the status of our high stations can we.
Bruce--
For more on the subject, a recent book called:
The Social Atom examines this thoroughly--
It is by the former editor of Nature, and a excellent read.
Most of our conceptions of the conditions success and failure are pure fantasy.
That's the way it is with winners and losers in any zero sum "game". The winners are convinced everything was fair and balanced. The losers are convinced the playing field was tilted.
Steroids anybody
Your cynicism is frightening.
What can I say? I got a late start in life, but I ended up pretty well off.
It took me 7 years to get throught college-I worked full time my first few years while going to school part-time, then took some student loans, changed my major, then I only worked part-time while finishing my degree.
My house is paid for, I own a ranch in the southern part of the state. I did it through hard work-50 to 60 hours a week frequently, and some good investments.
There are a lot of people who feel the same way you do. If things didn't work out for you, it must be because the game is rigged.
I disagree, if I can come from a blue-collar family to be semi-retired at 45 it can happen to others. Not everyone, but it is more than possible here in the USA than anywhere else.
There are a lot of people that work hard 50-60 hours or more a week and do not have a paid for house, a ranch, and are semi retired after a business that was started in 1991. As far as America being the best place for upward mobility studies have shown this is not the case, and cases such as yours are becoming more and more the exception in a society that resembles the “Gilded Age” of the late 1800’s where the income disparity is very wide.
An earlier statement of yours in another post confuses me however:
In L.A., I live 200 yards from my work. its like heaven
Most people I know that own businesses don’t refer to their business in this manner, especially a smug condescending republican who can’t wait to tell you how s
Finance guy opens two hedge funds. He bets all the money of one on Black and all the money of the other on Red. He takes twenty percent of the profit from the fund that suceeds and closes the fund that fails. He knows exactly what he is doing.
Consider the home buyer. He borrows the closing costs and 105% of the price of the house. Lives cheaper than rent for three years on the teaser rate. Then gives the house back to the bank. His credit rating is ruined but he was never creditworthy in the first place. He knows exactly what he is doing.
Consider the banker. He lend the money. Take out their fees. Then sell the loan to the hedge funds. He knows exactly what he is doing.
Everybody made money on the merry-go-round. Now that the ride has stopped, they'll go off and do something else laughing all the way. The next dot-com.
Well, it isn't true that everyone made money. Someone has to be left holding the bag when the smart money gets out. In the case of hedge funds one of the biggest bag holders is pension funds. Many of the largest hedge funds have a 24% pension fund interest.
So, once again, the little guy got left holding the bag. And this wild ride is far from over.
I didn't do any of those things. I just worked, paid my bills and took care of my family. Do I get a consolation prize?
No. You are part of the group that gets to pay the piper.
Being a decent person investing in a corrupt society doesn't pay, because even if just 30% of the assets around you fall through the floor, yours falls with them even if you did everything right.
The sub prime borrowers are not the victims, they are the cornerstone of the force that causes your loss.
You can have a crack dealer on the corner, but he only becomes a problem when he has customers. Without customers he becomes a casualty.
REPENT I say! THE END IS NIGH! AKNOWLEDGE YOUR SINS AND REPENT, and your soul might not be damned FOREVER!
oh, you ignorants! Do you not know that hell BURNS FOR EVER AND EVER?! May God forgive you, for you have not known what you have been doing. May you all REPENT!, and thus be SAVED!
ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOUR ALREADY!
Robert...
I disagree with your scenario about the attitude of home buyers. It strikes me as too cavalier. Some people might be doing what you suggest, of course, but certainly not the majority. The difference between the average buyer and the finance guy or the banker is a big one. Most buyers' motivation is to have a home, and a mid-to-long term investment.
Most buyers have no idea how the financing really works. They are told in various ways (via books, as well as by mortgage sales folks) that it's EASY to get a mortgage. Thrilled they can have the chance to own a house, they sign on the dotted line. After all, if they are told the monthly payments will approximate their rent, why not do it?
Beyond the situation where someone has an adjustable rate that starts jumping higher, there are all other costs of owning real property. Ongoing maintenance costs, emergency repairs, increases in utility rates, increases in taxes, increases in additional necessary costs such as water and sewer and garbage pick up if those aren't included in local taxes. Let's see, then there's gas, food, and...
I guess I'm taking your comment personally because those are the things that are slamming me right now. I bought my current house three years ago (very low fixed rate - with a solid bank lender) and seven months later I lost my job. I was out of work for quite a long time and dipped into savings over and over to keep afloat. Now I have my sweet home (my third in 25 years) on the market and it's not a pretty picture.
My credit rating was STELLAR when I closed on this place, but now...well, I'm walking a tightrope.
This is probably how decline and collapse of civilization is going to feel, personally, for each of us.
Suddenly. For no apparent reason. Your services are no longer required. Society has no room for you as a contributing member. You are no longer part of the mainstream. You have been cut to run on your own.
The place where you seek shelter; your home, quickly slips out of your hands ... and then you are out on the streets, homeless.
You get relabeled as a loitering vagrant, a rabid dog to be shot on sight. You have only yourself to blame. Do not cast mud on those who lured you into suburbitopia and who profited in the process. They are the white shirted angels who were merely doing "business" in the fair and square tradition. They are without fault. It's all yours to be enjoyed on an exclusive basis. Heads they win, tails you lose.
Also known as "manadatory retirement", which millions of us experience every year, good years and bad.
The fun part about being a Cassandra is you only have to be right once to get an "Infallible Oracle" brand on your forehead. You can be wrong time after time but that one time that the end really is nigh, you get all the babes.
Hi Bkhere,
I can sympathize if Robert cannot.
I was unemployed for five years: 2000 through 2005.
Never had a home but lost all retirement savings.
Today I spit in the face of politicos, particularly republican ones, since I did everything society told me to do:
- stayed out of trouble
- didn't do drugs
- served in the military
- earned two college degrees.
So much for all of that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican bullshit.
I for one am ready for a reset to the American dream which in my world means the "Second American Revolution".
All I can say is hang in there and spit in the face of the bullshit artists like Robert. They know not of your pain, only their betterment at our expense!
May we know what your areas of study were in college?
Hi SacredCowTipper,
Yes, BSEE and MBA.
Of the two, the MBA has proven far more valuable as US corporations have hollowed out technical staff in favor of outsourced expertise.
Quite counterintuitive.
By the way, I PAID for both of these degrees myself - no handouts from anyone!
I wonder how many here are aware of this other phenomenon, namely, that being all you can be and getting an engineering degree is the new lie of our society?
Prole is not kidding. I work in a tech-affiliated field and see over the recent years how the engineering ranks have been decimated in the USA.
The big laugh is watching politicians (like Barak Obama on CSPAN this morning) extolling the virtues of getting a higher education and graduating more engineers in this country. He probably means well. Just doesn't have a clue.
Today, even getting an MBA is questionable as the financial remnants of our hollowed out economy begin to crumble under the stress.
I had a friend in law school whose brother graduated from Notre Dame with a an engineering degree and high honors. Could not find a job. Wound up going to DePaul law school.
Problem is ... everybody is going to law school.
There are WAY too many lawyers. It is a pretty sad commentary on our society that everything has to be settled by litigation or incarceration.
Better that than settling everything the old fashion way ... by uncivil action, such as by a duel to the death.
But my point was not that. Rather; when they "all" graduate from law school, who is going to be their client? There won't be anybody else left.
While it is true that a single lawyer in a small town starves while two do well, the curve doesn't keep going that way. If the whole town is filled with nothing but lawyers, they're all unemployed.
Milton Friedman made the observation years ago that our economy was heading towards a unsustainable service economy where there would be two insurance salesman facing each other at a table and trying to sell each other insurance.
Bruce,
My records show it is time for us to meet and reassess your current insurance policy. We have many novel packages that will match with your evolving needs. We have a new post-peak plan called Catchusifucan which is ideally suited for your demographic.
"If the whole town is filled with nothing but lawyers, they're all unemployed."
That would be..... Buffalo, NY.
Well, as they say, a town that cannot support one lawyer can always support two.
We're trying to do something about the lawyer problem.
http://www.prosefights.org/nmlegal/nsalawsuit/nsalawsuit.htm#reportrespo...
I have an MS in Mechanical Engineering. When I started school in 1967 the LA Times had (no kidding) 100 pages of employment ads for engineers. Even though I don't look for work anymore I am amazed at how few engineering jobs are available in the SF Bay area. I suppose if your talents are in software or specialized EE areas you are employable but for mechanical types: head for China.
Ditto for Silicon Valley.
There was a time, before the 2001 dot.com bust when the Sunday paper was thicker than two telephone books because of all the help wanted sections.
Now it is an anorexic shadow of itself.
There aren't even the same number of regular advertisements.
Who are you going to advertise to? The unemployed engineers?
(Of course, part of the problem is that jobs, classifieds, etc. are now advertised on the internet rather than via newspapers which is why papers are dying. However, the general trend is still that all the hardware jobs are heading to China and all the software jobs to India and Romania. Silicon is no longer made in "Silicon" Valley. It's all made in China, Taiwan, Malaysia. We have "evolved" into a "new" economy thanks to globalization.)
I'm an underemployed engineer myself - Iowa State's computer science program, and now I work in that icky VoIP area. Its booming, even today, but I'm underworked due to disability. I have a mild case of Asperger's Syndrome - I look and act normal a good bit of the time, but I'm different enough in person that its caused me immense grief in employment.
A number of people posting here seem to have mentioned Asperger's. If there's ever a new demographic questionnaire done, that might be an interesting question for it. Could be that hyperanalytical people are disproportionately drawn here.
Or maybe not caring about social herding cues confers an advantage for 'black swan' type perceptions.
Or perhaps we're just peculiar.
You can add me to the list. I definitely have ADHD and may have some kind of aspergers/high functioning autism. Or just have lousy social skills. In any case, one person said I have it and other people say I don't. People don't come to TOD if they think the solution to peak oil is to con some other poor bastard out of their oil.
I also have Asperger's. I have also noticed more and more those posting on this forum and others saying the same thing. I too have wondered what the percentage of "Aspies" or others on the Autism scale are represented on TOD. I do know that we with Asperger's tend to view the world differently than most.
Anyone else out there?
Given the high maths involved, the aspect of this case being very complex, though very interesting, from a logical point of view, so counter-intuitive (from the business-as-usual standpoint), anti-social, and so fundamentally "big", I have no wonder at all that many "aspies" are interested in this subject. For me it is corroboration that it is such an interesting phenomenon...
New lie? You think this is a new lie? You obviously haven't been around very long. Engineering is and has been a terrible career for anyone wanting steady income and security. I know engineers who spent half the 70s on unemployment after the aerospace crash. Every senior engineer I know from the 80s on has told me to get my MBA if I want a chance of staying with a company beyond the completion of a contract.
You're much better off becoming a plumber. Toilets always need unplugging and it's not a job that can be successfully outsourced to India (the trip charge is a deal killer!).
Orion,
I'm right there with you. I was on one of those on the unemployment lines in the 70's (when the Vietnam war ended and there was no more of a need by our Great Society for engineers to calculate how much Butter is needed for lubing the Guns).
However ...
Do realize that every year our universities graduate a new litter of technology-armed graduates, salivating at the mouth, wagging their tails, and eager to serve their masters. The Market will provide.
You got a surplus of skilled engineers? That is one of the bottlenecks in the Swedish workforce. You dont happen to also have a surplus of skilled programmers, welders, plumbers, metal cutting machine operators, concrete workers and so on?
Its odd if skilled people cant get work, you ought to invest like mad in the energy sector and so on.
Hi prole,
I'm right there with you since my life to date fits much the same profile. I also hold a BSEE and hope to be finishing an MSEE in a month or two. I tell myself the MSEE is for me, but I probably wouldn't be doing it if the company wasn't paying. Sometimes I think I should've spent all that time going out to get high and get laid.
As luck would have it I also work in the MI-complex. My idiot managers are throwing my skill, training, and intellect away on filling out Excel spreadsheets and adjusting sliders in MS Project.
To put things in perspective, I was working with Excel and drafting architectural plans in AutoCAD in middle school. I was designing and conducting my own mechanical and acoustic science experiments in high school. I helped design, build, and successfully field test cellular repeaters in college.
I get my passive-aggressive revenge on management by constantly showing up late and doing about 10 actual hours of their 'work' a week. Somehow I wound up with two cubicles, so I can almost always tell these pukes, "I was in the other building dude." If that fails, then "I was taking the Browns to the Super Bowl."
My friends and I find it physically painful to watch "The Office" on NBC. That's how accurate a picture it paints.
It's a "cost plus contract".
You're the cost and your managers are laughing all the way to the bank.
They are not "idiots".
Instead, you are Dilbert.
Why do you live in a cubicle (or two)?
Don't you deserve an office?
For heavens sake you have a BSEE degree!
P.S. When I was young, I too worked as a double E (with MS!) in the MI-complex. I was too dumb to understand that I was just cannon fodder for the cost plus contracts. They didn't want me to actually do good work; just to run up justifiable costs. That's your real job dude. Figure out how to charge Uncle Sam more without being caught.
I can still find work with my MSEE degree but now it has to be with military industrial companies prevented by the nature of their work from offshoring. I spent the first twenty years of my career making products people actually wanted to buy.
I think a science education is a very useful and scarce thing to have even if it doesn't directly lead to lifetime employment. There are already too many idiots out there. Why do people get liberal arts degrees? They think reading Shakespeare in the original Klingon makes them a better person.
Hi Bkhere,
I can sympathize if Robert cannot.
I was unemployed for five years: 2000 through 2005.
Sorry to hear that.
Never had a home but lost all retirement savings.
May I ask why you never purchased a home?
Today I spit in the face of politicos, particularly republican ones, since I did everything society told me to do:
I got laid off in 1989, with a optical physics BS, I was underemployed for two years, then started my own buiness and now semi-retired at 45 years old.
Pulling myself by the boot-straps was good advice for me!
- stayed out of trouble
- didn't do drugs
- served in the military
- earned two college degrees.
Thank you for your serice. Sometimes it takes more than what you've outlined to succeed in life. You didn't buy a home, at time when homes were inexpensive, thus I suspect, but await the details, on your investments you made in the 90s.
Did you have a divorce in your recent past? That alone can break some people finanically.
So much for all of that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" republican bullshit.
Like I said above, worked out pretty good for me. The people I grew up with who didn't pull themselves up are the ones still living off of Mom and dad's kindness!
I for one am ready for a reset to the American dream which in my world means the "Second American Revolution".
Oh really? Notice how everyone is "ready" but they never actually do something about it? So you had some bad luck, what can I say since I don't know much about you, and you want to burn the barn down? Do you realize that would ruin many millions of lives who haven't had your bad fortune?
Or do you not care?
All I can say is hang in there and spit in the face of the bullshit artists like Robert. They know not of your pain, only their betterment at our expense!
I'm sorry you are so bitter. I will say a prayer for you that things will turn around.
Steroids anybody?
Not only are these "winners" convinced of the validity of the system, but it was their talent alone that led to their success. Never mind any luck or uncontrollable circumstances being involved such as being in the right place at the right time, having the right mentor or friends, or even having the right name or color of skin. Can’t have any doubt as to the merit of the status of our high stations can we.
Bruce--
For more on the subject, a recent book called:
The Social Atom examines this thoroughly--
It is by the former editor of Nature, and a excellent read.
Most of our conceptions of the conditions success and failure are pure fantasy.
Hightrekker, thanks a lot! I'm looking for a new book to put on my reading list. I will order it today.
In that case, you should definitely also read N. Taleb's Fooled by Randomness. It covers exactly this, and more, and is an entertaining read.
That's the way it is with winners and losers in any zero sum "game". The winners are convinced everything was fair and balanced. The losers are convinced the playing field was tilted.
Steroids anybody
Your cynicism is frightening.
What can I say? I got a late start in life, but I ended up pretty well off.
It took me 7 years to get throught college-I worked full time my first few years while going to school part-time, then took some student loans, changed my major, then I only worked part-time while finishing my degree.
My house is paid for, I own a ranch in the southern part of the state. I did it through hard work-50 to 60 hours a week frequently, and some good investments.
There are a lot of people who feel the same way you do. If things didn't work out for you, it must be because the game is rigged.
I disagree, if I can come from a blue-collar family to be semi-retired at 45 it can happen to others. Not everyone, but it is more than possible here in the USA than anywhere else.
There are a lot of people that work hard 50-60 hours or more a week and do not have a paid for house, a ranch, and are semi retired after a business that was started in 1991. As far as America being the best place for upward mobility studies have shown this is not the case, and cases such as yours are becoming more and more the exception in a society that resembles the “Gilded Age” of the late 1800’s where the income disparity is very wide.
An earlier statement of yours in another post confuses me however:
Most people I know that own businesses don’t refer to their business in this manner, especially a smug condescending republican who can’t wait to tell you how s