Honestly, can you blame them?
take it from their point of view. bush is planning on extending his hyped missile shield tech to Europe(putting aside all the evidence that showed the tests of the shield were fabricated), this shield would give them the ability to strike without the fear of retaliation.
Of course Russia is going to try to build up it's arsenal again. in the hopes that they can swarm the shield some of their counter attack gets through.

Arkansawyer

When Cheney bombs Teheran, Moscow becomes the World Capitol of the Planet's Energy.

I understodd the missile defence system would have a very tough job shooting down a missile, but apparantly they are pretty good against satelites. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

As long as people are going to buy things they don't really need with money they don't actually have, America wil remain in a credit crisis.

Arkansawyer

China just showed how easy it is to take out satellites.

One detonation in the right place will render nearly all orbits null and void.

http://celestrak.com/events/asat.asp

The first acknowledged maneuver to avoid a piece of debris from the Chinese ASAT test occurred on 2007 June 22 when flight controllers at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center briefly fired the thrusters on their TERRA satellite to avoid a 7 percent chance of being struck the following day:

* Space.com, "NASA's Terra Satellite Moved to Avoid Chinese ASAT Debris"

Several analysts have suggested that the debris from this event would be relatively short-lived and only remain in orbit for ten years or less. Unfortunately, nothing could be further from the truth. A detailed analysis of the lifetime of the debris cataloged so far—using the Lifetime model implemented in STK—shows that just under 7 percent of the debris (135 pieces) will have decayed within ten years and 79 percent will still remain in orbit 100 years from now. The majority of the debris from this one event will remain a hazard for centuries to come. (Note: This analysis was only done for 2,030 of the 2,087 pieces catalogued to date since it appears that 57 pieces are currently missing from the catalog.)

In Russia's continuing policy of seizing private assets, they are trying to locate and arrest another Russian oil capitalist:

http://www.forbes.com/business/energy/2007/08/31/gutseriyev-russneft-put...

oh stop. if you actually look at what these guys did post fall of soviet union it's actually better then him getting lynched by the millions of Russians he screwed.

Do you really think that what happened post Soviet-collapse is capitalism, I really don't know what to say. It is a bit like saying that Gaddafi's sons are capitalists or that Suharto's family is capitalist.

Is it a total coincidence that 80% of the oligarchs happened to belong to a faith that encompasses one half of one percent of Russia's population? I'll let you guess which religion that happens to be.

Alfred: You mean it is like saying Goldman Sachs is a capitalist enterprise?

i find anti-semetism offensive. You really need to go find a neo-nazi website Bob Ebersole

The ethnicity or religion of the oligarchs is one thing, the economic system they have in Russia is another. There is no doubt that it is capitalism, whether the capital is in the hands of the oligarchs or in the hands of the bureaucrat capitalists around Putin.

I laugh at people who think the Jews control everything. My wife is Jewish, as is my son's wife and her family. Her mother works as a sales clerk and her father as a security guard. He was UPS driver before he retired.

There are certainly rich Jews, but at the very top of the heap here you mostly find my people -- WASPs. Unless Cheney converted? But this is all quite beside the point. Capitalism isn't about religion or ethnicity -- it's about money. The billionaires of whatever background love to stir animosities between people. Cheney has no affinity whatsoever for his Appalachian kinfolk, nor does the elite of any backrgound.

A lot of anti-semitism is aroused by Israel's criminal actions just as a lot of anti-American sentiment is aroused by the US gov't bombing the crap out of anything or - one that moves. But the Israelis are pawns in the hands of their elite just as we are of ours. Norman Finkestein points out that a lot of the Russian "Jews" in Israel are not even Jewish!

Think interests, think economics -- don't think ethnicity or religion. End of rant.

Really well put. Thanks. Good ending.

matt

Thank Dave - and Matt,

Second the sentiment.

And possibly add, sometimes the "interests", as well as the "economics", are conducted via connections people have. And what people believe (or imagine) themselves to have in common with others may be part of that. Though the beliefs about commonality may be artifacts, too - as opposed to motives.

I think any statement calculated to build up hatred of others is against my principles and values, and I'd prefer not to see it here. We all need to work together.

Unfortunately, I find neo-cons distinctly unlovable.

Best Hopes for uniting 99.4% of us in a common struggle,

Alan

In the 80s, someone (probably Arthur C Clarke) pointed out that the Russians could destroy the Star Wars satellites by throwing a bucket of nails out of the Mir space station.

thats because satellites are easy to hit. take the orbit and determine when is the best time to launch to send something to hit it. The orbit is either geostationary or on a set path making the knowledge of where it will be easy.
warheads on the other hand are more chaotic. shooting down a missile is more like you trying to knock a bullet out of the air with another bullet, mathematically possible but due to the time scale involved it's not practically possible.

You need one of these babies,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_High_Energy_Laser
Coming to an all electric SUV near you soon!

i have heard of those, they are still NOT fast enough in everything but the speed of the laser. they heavily rely on radar to target. as fast as the servos on the emitter point are they still can't move that fast. not to mention the charge up time for the laser, and the fact that the laser MUST hit stay on the target for a little while to heat the projectile enough to make it blow.

Also, consider that chemical lasers like these do not run on electricity at all. A chemical laser is like a rocket engine. Explosive fuels go in, laser light comes out.

The laser you mentioned burns $3,000 of chemicals per shot, including deuterium which costs abut $20 a gallon.

Any energy weapon, by definition according to thermodynamics, consumes more energy than it produces. No matter what kind of laser weapon, each shot requires burning more fuel energy than the energy in the laser.

Accurate enough. The question then becomes - why did the Chinese undertake this relatively low tech. test and create so much space debris? Just to screw the world for the fun of it?

Also to demonstrate that your precious navigation satellites and spy satellites won't live much longer than aircraft carriers in a real shooting war.

The original poster (TrueKaiser) implied that, that is already obvious, i.e., it is easy to kinetically destroy satellites and create space debris. The folks in the armed forces know it - was the intent to also make it obvious to Joe Blow on main street?? - and how about the 2200 pieces of space debris that was created and will be around for 100s of years?

Was the intent to make space unusable for others?

As far as a shooting war goes - ICBMs have inertial guidance systems and are independent of Satellites and GPS. The Chinese have many of these, as do many others in the rest of the world. So destroying satellites will not prevent retaliation.

Below is a link on inertial guidance of ICBMs.

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Weapons/Airs.html

The Chinese aren't trying to project force over the entire world, only the US is. They would be quite content for now just to sweep the US away from their periphery. Thus, they really don't need to know the exact location of something in Germany or Peru or Cameroon -- just in China proper or a few hundred miles beyond their border. Thus, they could get along just fine with every GPS satellite knocked out; it is the US that would be in trouble. Ditto with the spy satellites. They would probably like to spy on the US via satellite, but they undoubtedly have more and better human intelligence over here than we have over there, so they could get by without their spy satellites if need be.

The only satellites that the Chinese really need are their geostationary ones. It is a little harder to knock those out, for they are a lot farther away. The funny thing is, though, that you could do so without putting most other satellites in geostationary orbit at risk - partially because there is considerable distance separating each, but mostly because the debris would be blown into a non-geostationary orbit.

Knock out our cable TV -- now there's the ultimate weapon for you; hit the US where it REALLY hurts!

Agree.

Arkansawyer

And of course, none of this will matter after say 5 Multi Megaton explosions over say 5 Financial Centers, Civilization will revert to something near the Stone Age.

after say 5 Multi Megaton explosions over say 5 Financial Centers, Civilization will revert to something near the Stone Age.



A subprime implosion over say 70% of the US population would achieve the same effect.

Atom bombs won the last world war, survival knives will win the next.

LANGUAGE WARNING, do not click on the link if you are going to whine about it.

http://www.exile.ru/2007-August-14/feature_story.html

Musashi
that is one of the funniest analyses ever, references to excrement notwithstanding...

Yah, they calls 'em as they smells 'em...

Actually, an insightful analysis written in about the most insulting way possible, which is just what the war-mongers deserve.

Errol in Miami

Good stuff. Hyperpower = all hype and no power. LOL.

The War Nerd is even funnier.
I was just reading an older article re Chavez.

http://www.exile.ru/2006-October-06/venezuela_enchilada_of_evil.html

You can click on "browse author" to read the old articles.

Thank you Musashi,
For my new favorite site, eXile.
Freakin hilarious, and dead on accuracy.
good stuff. (always liked those pesky ruskies)
Off now to read archives...

Hi Musashi,

Thanks for the warning :), (I may be the only one to take full advantage and pass...)

re: "Atom bombs won the last war..."

A couple of reviews of the book "Racing the Enemy" by Tsyuyoshi Hesegawa, taken off Amazon's website:

"Los Angeles Times : As Tsuyoshi Hasegawa has shown definitively in his new book, Racing the Enemy--and many other historians have long argued--it was the Soviet Union's entry into the Pacific war on Aug. 8, two days after the Hiroshima bombing, that provided the final 'shock' that led to Japan's capitulation."
--Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin

"In summer 1945 Truman and his advisers set a foreign policy course that demanded American use of doomsday weapons not only against Japan but, indirectly, against humanity itself. In this groundbreaking book, Hasegawa argues that the atomic bombs were not as decisive in bringing about Japan's unconditional surrender as Soviet entry into the Pacific War. His challenging study reveals the full significance of Truman's decision not to associate Stalin with the Potsdam Declaration and offers fresh evidence of how Japan's leaders viewed Stalin's entrance into the war as the decisive factor.

Others have shown that Truman missed opportunities to secure Japan's unconditional surrender without an invasion or the nuclear destruction of Japanese cities. But few have so thoroughly documented the complex evasions and Machiavellism of Japanese, Russian, and, especially, American leaders in the process of war termination."
--Herbert P. Bix, Pulitzer Prize-winning author of Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan

http://www.amazon.com/Racing-Enemy-Stalin-Truman-Surrender/dp/0674016939...

Of course, this doesn't mean that survival knives won't win the next one.

Just to say, the way things work may (emphasis) be more complex then we imagine and hence, allow us the tiniest sliver of possibility for a different outcome.

True, one never knows how it will play out. The best laid plans almost never survive first contact. All one can do is watch the trends, conserve options and stay agile from any possible point of view, ie physical, economical, logistical, etc.

Oh, come on guys! All this talk about the USA shooting down Russian missiles. Dick Cheney is the President of the United States - the greatest nation on Earth. If you can't trust Dick Cheney, who can you trust?

And if worse comes to worse and we have to invade Russia to spread democracy, you can be sure that when our troops march into Moscow, the Russian people (if any are left) will shower us with flowers, just like the Iraqis did in Baghdad.

So have some faith in our leaders.
I fully trust President Cheney to do the right thing.

Hallelujah,
Robert

Ukrainan,Russians and Georgians comprise a HUGE percent of the new immigrants here in portland ore,except,One must remember they have a whole different way of looking at the world,and tend to settle their own "bidness"without getting the law involved.

Its too late to bring democracy to russia....they fooled everyone,and moved here at the time the wall came down

That isn't unique to them. Quite a few other cultures work that way and generally not being able to game the system regardless of resources makes for good neighbors and peace.

Not unique at all--
As Charles Bukowski pointed out:
"It's not that I hate cops, it's just I feel a whole lot better when they aren't around"--
Getting the State involved with disputes inside your culture (assuming that their is enough social control within that culture to enforce decisions and societal morals) is asking for disastrous results from a group who's primary purpose is to enforce the interests of a ruling elite.