Sad about the cabbies and Houston where the old urban legends about cars supercede reality and experience. The most reliable cars in the world have been many of the 4 cylinder Japanese vehicles - vastly more reliable than the big American made jobs that have been used by cabbies for years. Also the notion of replacing batteries, shown false through all experience but persisting as legend. Oh, well.

Great discussion of the opening of the conference - thanks so much for sharing this with us.

Hopefully the real-life experiences of hybrid-driving cabbies in Vancouver and Victoria will outweigh all the urban legends.

Probably 50+% of the cabs I saw in Vancouver and Victoria were Prii. Did not hear about anybody replacing batteries before the 200K retirement. I did hear that the regenerative braking reduced brake job intervals from ~50K to never.
Also the vast majority of cabs have only one occupant, so a Prius is more than big enough. Cab companies just need some mix of mini-vans and station wagons to dispatch only when needed.

$3000 is probably what they pass hand-to-hand off the ticker every week. They can afford it.

There is a crying need for a truly heavy duty workhorse hybrid that can be used by both police depts and taxicab companies. As far as police depts are concerned, there are thousands of municipalities that would love to buy something more green and energy efficient than a Crown Vic, and are under heavy pressure from their boards and the public to do so, but there just isn't anything that can really stand up to the wear and tear. What you will typically see is that police departments will buy hybrid SUVs for the police chief, crime lab, etc. (i.e., users not doing chases or running 12 hours/day), but NOT as patrol cars. There is a whole set of things that need to be beefed up for a vehicle to work as a patrol car: frame & suspension, brakes, electrical system, etc. Even most conventional SUVs are not built to stand up to 12 hr/day continuous operation.

I could be wrong, but I think all the retrofitting is because they are so unreliable in the first place. Of course you can't use a Prius to push a damaged 3/4 ton pickup out of an intersection, so certain capabilities would be lacking (although usually they just call a tow truck anyway) but in terms of wear and tear and required maintenance from just driving, especially with 12 hrs days, I bet statistics would show a stock Prius beating out a refitted CV any day. Any data to support your contention they aren't up to it? Remember the favored vehicle of the Taliban? Small toyota pickups. Nothing got harder duty than that. I'm sure they didn't do thousands of dollars of retrofitting either.

I waas giving you the perceptions of the cabby and what he understood the position of the cab companies to be. Bear in mind that some of them get used cars at say $3,000 and refurbish and sell to the cabbies at $5,000 - not much room in there for a Prius yet. (His story and numbers not mine).

Absolutely - I wasn't taking what you wrote in this regard as your positon. I was just sad to see that the old perceptions remain so pervasive. Certainly the issue of initial cost would be real, even if reliability is not.

As much as I am supportive of hybrids, there is another serious issue in using (at least the current generation Prius) for taxi and public safety applications.

The generation and conversion of 40-60KW of electric power on-board (The Prius power system uses 240 VDC which is processed through an inverter to 440V 3-phase AC for the traction motor) generates MASSIVE amounts of broadband white noise that blankets the radio spectrum from about 2 MHz to well over 250 MHz.

This doesn't impact the reception of AM and FM broadcast stations with transmit powers typically of thousands of watts. However it seriously degrades the reception in land-mobile two-way radios in this vehicle. (The typical two-way base station transmits typically only a few tens of watts, or at most a few hundred watts, toward the mobile receiver.)

I have personally observed the usable range for two-way radio systems installed in the Prius to be one-half or less of the typical due to desensitizing of the receiver by this on-board noise. (I am a land-mobile radio systems engineer.)

Two-way dispatch radio is critical to fleet operations such as taxis, public safety and delivery fleets. This electrical noise issue must be addressed before hybrids are going to be accepted by fleet operations.

Note: The noise in question drops off at higher frequencies and affects primarily the 30-50MHz ""Low-Band" VHF, 150-170 "High Band" VHF and 220 MHz. There is no noticeable problem at 450-510 MHz "UHF" or in the 800/900 MHz bands used by trunking radio systems and cell phones.

It was the inability to hear weak signals for radio coverage tests and measurments in my Prius that made me replace it with a Jetta TDI turbo-diesel. The diesel is exceptionally quiet electrically, especially since the diesel doesn't have sparkplugs that have traditionally be a source of noise in gasoline engines.

This is an excellent example of the kind of problems that arise as new technology is introduced. These problems are not unfixable, but they do require re-engineering something. In this case, it could be better electronic shielding of the Prius inverter, wiring, and motor, or changing over to higher frequency radios or cell phones (GHz) instead of VHF two-way radio. Not rocket science -- but each of these things take a few years to optimize and a few years for fixes to filter through the system.

It is unavoidable that there will be numerous analogous problems in rolling out renewable energy sources. For example, thin film photoelectric cells are not likely to be as robust to weathering as thick, old-style silicon cells. No doubt clever tricks could be invented to swap-out/electrically reconnect bad ones, they could be built directly into roofing material (note that this interacts with replacing failed cells), replaced cells and/or roofing tiles could be recycled to reclaim hard-to-get metals, various add-ons for existing roofs could be tested, etc, etc. I think it is very hard to guess at all these interactions in advance. We just have to do it. One use of subsidies is to allow some of this experimentation to happen earlier than it might if adoption were based on current economic viability.

My worries about whether 'business as usual' can actually successfully make small changes like the one above along with myriad other larger changes required to electrify transport, re-localize the economy, reorganize suburbs, continue to supply cities, and so on, all in the next 20 years are echoed by GreyZone here. Let's say, it still seems possible.

Ah yes, but the vested interest lie industry wins when it is wrong, not by winning the argument, but by sowing the seeds of doubt, ideally through press releases that are reported by unquestioning, but respected journalists and papers with editors and politicians who maybe influenced by dark sources of funding into failing to question their sources of information.

"Nobody needs to go anywhere else. We are all, if we only knew it, already there." (Aldous Huxley "Island" 1962, p38)