44 comments on Geopolitical Feedback Loops in Resource and Oil Depletion
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
44 comments on Geopolitical Feedback Loops in Resource and Oil Depletion
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
- What "Lower Consumption" Means
- Tricking and Treating the Future
- Meeting Energy Decline Part-Way - Potatoes?
TOD:Europe
- The Future of Nuclear Energy: Facts and Fiction - Part IV: Energy from Breeder Reactors and from Fusion?
- The US stimulus and "green jobs"
- EROWI - energy return of water invested
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Saturday 7th November 2009
- The Bullroarer - Friday 30th October 2009
- Details of Solar Flagships Released
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- The Energy Blog
- Entropy Production
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“We have only two modes—complacency and panic.”
—James R. Schlesinger, the first energy secretary, in 1977, on the country's approach to energy
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
Good metaphor!
It is a good metaphor and made me think of the lakes in the BC Coastal Mountains compared to Eastern Canada where lakes tend to freeze over and then it snows on top of the ice. One steps on the snow and bottoms out when ones feet hit the ice. Higher up in the BC Coastal Mts, the snow amounts on average are about 5 times higher. So when it snows on the these lakes, 1-3feet at a time, the weight of the snow pushes the ice down below the water level. Walking on fresh snow on these lakes can be very disconcerting, when your foot prints start filling with water. Depending on the amount of new snow and its weight sometimes you can sink up to your waste in slush and then bottom out on the ice below. No I have never heard of anyone drowning or dieing from hypothermia in this situation. But one could easily panic and die of a fear induced heart attack.
It just goes to show that when you are experiencing something new, one can only speculate based on past experience and of course, don't panic. Again, a great metaphor!
Nice extension it shows how the situation can appear quite complex. And in your example its not even clear where the ice level is.
But at the end of the day the issue is when is the ice going to break.
Since we are talking about ice you can see that the same concept applies to the melting in the arctic. The models assumed a gradual strain/stress relationship with steady melting. The system in reality had fracture points.
It seems to make more sense to instead assume that the system has stress/strain fracture points then figure out when they would be triggered. For melting ice it makes sense given the currents etc that ice less than a meter thick would fragment so the models should have gone non-linear at that point.
Another example is the melting of the Greenland ice cap. It makes sense to assume once say enough meltwater is available to lift 10% of the cap the system is susceptible to collapse although to my knowledge no model include this mechanical collapse situation even though we have seen it in action.
Looking at oil supply the system its obvious that now that supplies are tight the system is strained and breakdown events become increasingly probable.
And of course any "event" will lead to a lot of other feedback loops getting triggered.
I used to work on something called schocastic resonance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_resonance
Cracking under strain is probably a stochastic resonance condition.
What this means is that strained systems are really undergoing vibrations which drive any resonators in the system. This driven coupling leads to feedback then highly non-linear ( explosive) behavior.
Thus stressed complex systems are full of both vibration modes and oscillators that are driven by the vibrations and subject to feedback.
DO NOT TAUNT HAPPY FUN BALL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Fun_Ball
Hello ChrisN,
IMO, it is easily feasible to have 'induced-black swan events', or what I prefer to call them is 'Societal Liebig Minimums', that will generally not be perceived as such by the general global public, or ignored/denied by most.
Recall my postings on Asimov's Foundation concepts of predictive collapse and directed decline judiciously applied under the doctrine of the porridge principle of metered decline.
Again, IMO, this provides the optimal paradigm shift as we winnow out billions through the Dieoff Bottleneck. Can you think of a better method to jumpstart Peak Outreach and the conversion to the sequential building of biosolar habitats?
Can you think of a better way to roll back the planetary petri dish clock from 11:59.99 to approx. 11:30 or even earlier?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20071029bcmideastgaza1stledewritethru_...
-------------------------------
Conditions worsen in Gaza as Israel tightens grip
------------------------------
My hope is that the TopTODers can really investigate & expand upon my crude text writings. Just imagine what we could do with a very large supercomputer cluster, plus bleeding edge science & logistics modeling software.
Matt's LATOC has had numerous past articles on military, government, think-tank, and scientific institutional simulation runs on various scenarios. My guess is that this is just the 10% unclassified tip of the iceberg vs. the 90% of the hidden or submerged classified modeling runs. Who knows?
Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?
Bob, you're clearly deep into the theory of collapse, and sometimes I struggle just to wade through the concepts. I get your ambition, but somehow I doubt that we're going to get through it by any preconceived methodology or theory or managed process.
Liebig's observation was descriptive, not proscriptive, right? Our planetary petri dish is going to do its thing and there's not a whole lot that can be done about it consciously, IMHO. Substitute "planet Earth" for your "very large supercomputer cluster, plus bleeding edge science & logistics modeling software" and I'm with ya.
Perhaps Douglas Adams was right: We are that supercomputer, all trying to calculate the greatest answer to the greatest question (which turns out to be 42, if memory serves).
--C
Energy consultant, writer, blogger www.getreallist.com
Hello ChrisN,
Thxs for responding. The basic operating mode of Foundation is to let Mother Nature and human nature take its pounds of flesh, but attempt to steer this mode in desired directions by constantly tweaking or ignoring developing trends for optimum effect and control.
For example:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a0WAzQxwAbNg&refer=us
--------------------------------------------
Atlanta Urinals, Fountain Run Dry as UPS, Coke Fight Drought
-----------------------
All these water conservation measures should be expected, and I hope the SE drastically raises potable water prices to promote further water savings combined with Humanure done on a huge municipal scale.
But if things continue to get worse: what is the next step?
Recall my speculative FEMA plan to start relocating SouthEasterners to a rehabilitated Detroit and other areas along the Great Lakes [a tweaking mitigation to reduce possible building blowbacks]. Now I have no idea [need a supercomputer to analyze, or an inside source] if FEMA prefers this possible tweaking, or prefers to 'purposely ignore' the situation, thus accelerating the natural growth of cascading blowbacks. I can't imagine FEMA not being aware of possible SE drought consequences; they have no excuse, no credibility to say the drought 'caught' them unprepared, if the worst comes to pass. Their mission statement clearly requires them to be prepared for such eventualities.
Consider the widely recognized, elevated risk profile of Nawlins and other outlying areas before Katrina: was the situation 'purposely ignored' by the Corps of Eng., and other govt and insurance entities that could have easily forced early abandonment, or the building of heavily reinforced levees, and/or low-level land infill much earlier?
Consider the long, global history of civilizational and ecological Overshoot & Decline, clearly understood by leaders since Malthusian effects were clearly delineated over two hundred years ago: the topdogs, if desired, could have mitigated this long ago by universal outreach [hell, they still could get started today!], but I believe they have other plans. They too have no excuse for plausible deni-ability--thus, that is why I see so much Foundation implementation when I examine the news. Of course, your mileage may vary.
Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?