<DrumBeat: November 6, 2007 The Oil Drum Energy and Environment News Updates (and an open thread as Tapis JUST HIT $100!--see comments!)>

61 comments on The needs and use of water for power, industrial plants and people

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WNC Observer on November 6, 2007 - 9:27pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I wonder if it would be possible to convert a grass (or mostly weeds, in my case) lawn to an alfalfa lawn?

Alfalfa is a legume and adds fertility to the soil instead of taking it away. IIRC, the root systems of alfalfa are deeper as well, and thus might be better able to get by with less moisture than grass?

I am planning on raising rabbits in the next 2-4 years, and I know that fresh alfalfa is a good thing to feed them. If I could raise my own alfalfa and hand mow it with a scythe, I am thinking that I could keep my rabbit feed bill to a minimum.

I suppose that if someone kept a "pet" milk goat (probably OK in more permissive, non-snob-zoning communities), the alfalfa would make for better grazing than turf grass.

This could be one strategy for putting otherwise useless lawn acreage to productive use.

Of course, the Swiss plowed up all their lawns and planted potatoes during WWII - that was how they avoided starvation. I've got so many trees around my place that I'm not sure how practical that is.

There is also a movement promoting "edible landscaping" - plant strawberries and other soft fruits, plus fruit trees, in place of grass. I'm planning on doing some of that, too.

More people will be thinking and acting along these lines when the costs of gas for the mower, fertilizer & pesticides for the grass, water for the sprinklers (if they can get it at all), and food (that they could have grown themselves but grew grass instead) all become too expensive.

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Todd on November 6, 2007 - 10:45pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

WNCO,

Here's the problem with edible landscapes - even urban areas have animals that will eat them too. And, suburban areas are full of hungry animals from deer to coons to possums to rabbits. Deer are a special problem.

So, what are people going to do? Whack Bambi illegally in their back yard? Buy a big dog that eats more food then the garden will produce? Try the cutsy-pie repellent sprays that will also cost more then the food produced? Turn their yard into a fenced in fort?

I'm not trying to give a smart answer. These are serious problems. Wine grape growers south of me, and surrounding counties, have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars to deer who eat the grapes.

In my case, I do have a special fenced off area from the main 2 Ac fenced garden and orchard that I call the "Melon Prison." It is really small, about 15x20' but it keeps out the rabbits, grouse, coons, skunks, deer and wild pigs. But, if push comes to shove - I whack em.

Todd

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Stoneleigh on November 6, 2007 - 11:42pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I keep deer away from my orchard by tying pieces of white rag around the trees. When the rag blows in the wind it simulates the deer's warning signal (flashing the white underside of their tails to warn of danger). I also collect shed undercoat from my dog sled team and spread it around areas I want to protect.

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Todd on November 7, 2007 - 1:16am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Hi Stoneleigh,

Well, we've been up on our mountain for about 30 years. We don't have dog sled dogs for hair but we've tried everything else known.

We have two major problems. The first are the bears that crush our fence so the deer can get through. In retrospect my wife and I wonder if we'd have purchased this property if we'd have known what a pain the bears would be. Plus, it's no fun to find bear paw prints on our sliding glass doors. The best years we had were when we had a lot of lions around. OTOH, my wife had to stop walking down our road for exercise because of them. It was just too potentially dangerous. One was a female with cubs that I not only tracked on the road but around our house.

The other problem is the typical CA climate - we get a ton of rain in the winter and none in the summer. There is sufficient, but not too attractive deer browse in the summer, so our stuff is like a magnet.

This year we are going to try something called Rex Plus which is an electronic "dog" with a motion detector. It might stop the bears and the deer.

Todd

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Edgy on November 7, 2007 - 2:44am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

At first I was going to reply with something like "I'd consider building a solid fence." As I started to write I thought, bears?... geez, if I had to contend with bears AND the decline of peak oil, ummm, I dunno. Deer are enough for me. Yesterday my neighbor killed one. Guns going off give me a nervous feeling. I'm not the killing type, never killed a deer. Drew the line there... dove and quail, yes. Asked him how long he'd let the deer hang in the tree before skinning - oh, a day. Thought about asking to go along.

Then I recalled the time my dad took my brother and me to the farm house to skin a deer he had hanging in the kitchen over some plastic. Blood splattered. Imagine our surprise as we had not been told what awaited us. I remember how cold it was. How I shivered and wished I didn't have to do it. Deer season.

Today as I sat on the sofa reading TOD most of the day I looked out to see a young buck (his nubs barely visible) and fawn making their way along the ridge. No mama today. Later I saw the buck out front, on the road, alone... kinda wandering. Against a background of blond grass blowing in the cool winds on a gray November day.

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OnceFueled on November 7, 2007 - 8:52am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

...saw this a couple years ago - funny and sad at the same time...

GOD AND ST. FRANCIS DISCUSSING LAWNS

GOD: Francis, you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is going on down there? What happened to the dandelions, violets, thistle and stuff I started eons ago? I had a perfect, no-maintenance garden plan. Those plants grow in any type of soil, withstand drought and multiply with abandon. The nectar from the long lasting blossoms attracts butterflies, honey bees and flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast garden of colors by now. But all I see are these green rectangles.

ST. FRANCIS: It's the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites. They started calling your flowers "weeds" and went to great lengths to kill them and replace them with grass.

GOD: Grass? But it's so boring. It's not colorful. It doesn't attract butterflies, birds and bees, only grubs and sod worms. It's temperamental with temperatures. Do these Suburbanites really want all that grass growing there?

ST. FRANCIS: Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it and keep it green. They begin each spring by fertilizing grass and poisoning any other plant that crops up in the lawn.

GOD: The spring rains and warm weather probably make grass grow really fast. That must make the Suburbanites happy.

ST. FRANCIS: Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it-sometimes twice a week.

GOD: They cut it? Do they then bale it like hay?

ST. FRANCIS: Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags.

GOD: They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?

ST. FRANCIS: No Sir. Just the opposite. They pay to throw it away.

GOD: Now let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will grow. And when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?

ST. FRANCIS: Yes, Sir.

GOD: These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot of work.
ST. FRANCIS: You aren't going to believe this Lord. When the grass stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it so they can continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it.

GOD: What nonsense. At least they kept some of the trees. That was a sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself. The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty and shade in the summer. In the autumn they fall to the ground and form a natural blanket to keep moisture in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. Plus, as they rot, the leaves form compost to enhance the soil. It's a natural circle of life.

ST. FRANCIS: You better sit down, Lord. The Suburbanites have drawn a new circle. As soon as the leaves fall, they rake them into great piles and pay to have them hauled away.

GOD: No. What do they do to protect the shrub and tree roots in the winter and to keep the soil moist and loose?

ST. FRANCIS: After throwing away the leaves, they go out and buy something which they call mulch. They haul it home and spread it around in place of the leaves.

GOD: And where do they get this mulch?

ST. FRANCIS: They cut down trees and grind them up to make the mulch.

GOD: Enough. I don't want to think about this anymore. St. Catherine, you're in charge of the arts. What movie have they scheduled for us tonight?"

ST. CATHERINE: "Dumb and Dumber", Lord. It's a really stupid movie about.....

GOD: Never mind, I think I just heard the whole story from St. Francis.

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gregorach on November 7, 2007 - 11:29am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Now that's brilliant! It really does seem like we've gone out of our way to come up with the most wasteful, inefficient and back-asswards approach to gardening possible, doesn't it?

I remember reading in John Muir's "Story of My Boyhood and Youth" that he put a lot of it down to the Protestant work ethic - the idea that if you weren't working really bloody hard for at least 20 hours a day, 6 days a week, then you were doing something wrong. So people would work far more land than they needed to (or any use for), in deliberately inefficient ways, just to have more work to do. It's really hard to argue with that sort of obtuseness...

Personally, I've always hated lawns - my hayfever is mainly triggered by grass pollen.

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WNC Observer on November 7, 2007 - 10:08am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Todd:

I'm sure that deer can be a big problem in some areas. We have very few around here, mainly because there are no corn farmers in our valley.

Electric fences are pretty easy to set up, and are now charged by solar power units, so that would be one way to keep the deer out. A dog would take care of the smaller critters.

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Pitt the Elder on November 7, 2007 - 2:01pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

If I could raise my own alfalfa and hand mow it with a scythe, I am thinking that I could keep my rabbit feed bill to a minimum.

Plus, hand-scything is awesome. Great fun.

I suppose that if someone kept a "pet" milk goat (probably OK in more permissive, non-snob-zoning communities), the alfalfa would make for better grazing than turf grass.

You'd likely want a mix and to be careful about the level of alfalfa consumed, due to a risk of founder. Goats tend to be pretty robust, though, and alfalfa's good to have around for its protein content.

Goats are also more likely to damage a field, as they crop the grass down lower than many animals, but that's probably only an issue in summer, and is easy enough to fix (keep 'em off of at-risk parts). For the same reason, though, they can live off of land that wouldn't support cows or horses.

Oh, and have good fences - goats are good at getting out and into trouble. Most people find their milk easier to digest than cow milk, though, and one goat is certainly less to take care of than one cow, so they're not a bad option.

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61 comments on The needs and use of water for power, industrial plants and people

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