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309 comments on DrumBeat: November 8, 2007

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Solaris on November 8, 2007 - 10:23am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top

Come on folks, let’s face reality. $100 per barrel of oil is still ridiculously cheap. That’s only $2.38 per gallon. Pricing oil by the barrel makes is sound a lot more expensive than it really is. When the price of oil reaches $4 or $5 per gallons, then we can talk about oil starting to become expensive.

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eric blair on November 8, 2007 - 10:25am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Yup. Price that in labor, work, effort.

Go ahead. Compare that gallon of gas in a tiller VS you, by hand, mixing dirt in your garden.

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DelusionaL on November 8, 2007 - 10:34am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

100% true.
yet the average USer is tapped out financially, so we will see where they cut back, and who suffers the economic shortfall. Self reinforcing downward spiral.

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mcgowanmc on November 8, 2007 - 10:55am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I still say that it's impossible to make $2.40
gas from $100 oil.

Cushing agrees.

Where's the incentive?

The US Gov't is susidizing this somehow.

And since the Commodus modeling POTUS is so keen on privatization i propose that we hire Mexico to do our next katrina:

800 000 evac'ed, less than a score have (regretfully)
perished, but nothing about the oil/gas industry, 70% of
Mexico's Hydrocarbons, has been
hurt.

And judging by the news, or lack thereof, everyone
is content.

What's not to like?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5279726.html

"George Baker, a Houston-based analyst and an expert on Mexico's oil industry, said that delays in moving supplies and people to and from onshore rigs could affect production. He added that Pemex will also have to deal with the humanitarian crisis in Villahermosa.

"Does it cause a problem for Pemex that some of their employees are standing on their rooftops? It probably does," he said."

Arkansaw of Samuel L Clemens

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River on November 8, 2007 - 12:08pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

How a 10.3% rise in the cost of imported goods caused a 1.3% drop in US inflation...or, lets just make it up as we go skipping merrily along...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/IK09Dj02.html

...snip...'"Inflation was low because oil prices surged," which he says can be explained by noting that "In GDP math, sometimes one plus one equals zero."

...snip...'At first, I thought that he was insulting me by expecting me to believe such stupidity - that price inflation would fall because oil went up in price, but he holds up the actual news article from MarketWatch.com, which confirms that "As odd as it sounds, the government reported that inflation was at a four-decade low in the third quarter, primarily because import oil prices rose so much."

'but that it is all so easily explainable by Shelley Smith, who's in charge of figuring the price index for the government's Bureau of Economic Analysis, who said sometimes the mechanical formula produces some "quirky, nonintuititive relationships".

"Most of the time," it is explained, "the government's formula doesn't produce any weird numbers, because the mathematical quirks all cancel each other out. But in the just concluded third quarter, it did produce quirky numbers that don't accurately reflect reality, even though they are correct from an accounting point of view."

And from that "accounting point of view", the way it works is that prices of imported goods rose at a 10.3% annual pace in the quarter, but that import prices are subtracted from GDP, and thus somehow subtracted 1.3 percentage points from inflation, even though the prices of imports went up!'...snip...

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CEOJr1963 on November 8, 2007 - 1:52pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

34 dollar a month bus pass, and I can walk 25 miles in a day if need be. 500 bucks and you can buy my wrecked van.

God Grant you peace.
God Grant you Love of your fellow man.
God Grant you Faith and Trust.
Write in Candidate for President 2008.
Free Right Now party. No donations.
Term limits for congress, Min wage for them too
Charles Edward Owens Jr.

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bruce from chicago on November 8, 2007 - 3:49pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

You running for President or Pope?

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Durandal on November 8, 2007 - 4:56pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

When the Little Rock bus system (CAT- Central Arkansas Transit) runs ANYWHERE near my house, hell will have frozen over. Not to mention the fact that it's chronically late, and so you miss your connecting bus... Nah, I'll ride a bike, a scooter, a motorcycle, a car, whatever, but to hell with Little Rock's bus system.
~Durandal (http://www.wtdwtshtf.com/)

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jokuhl on November 8, 2007 - 11:12am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

"...then we can talk about oil starting to become expensive."

No, it think it's ok to talk about it now.

It's my birthday today, and I'm:

a)renewing my driver's license (and of course, DRIVING to DMV to do so..OK, I 'could' bike there.. will let you know.)

b)building the brackets and block and tackle rig to get my first Concentrating Solar-Hot-Air panel up to the roof by Saturday.

c)getting a massage (which, to stay on topic, uses oil, but nothing crude)

Bob
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--[Judith runs in, panicked.]

JUDITH
They've arrested Brian!!

PFJ
What?

JUDITH
They've dragged him off. They're going to crucify him.

REG
Right. This calls for immediate discussion!

JUDITH
What?!?

REGULAR
Immediate.

DIET
Right.

LORETTA
New motion?

REG
Completely new motion. Eh, That, ah. That there be, ah, immediate action...

FRANCIS
... ah, once the vote has been taken.

REG
Well, obviously once the vote has been taken, you can't act on a resolution
'till you've voted on it!

JUDITH
Reg, for God's sake, let's go now, please!

REG
Yeah, yeah. Right, right. In the, in the light of fresh information from,
ah, sibling Judith.

LORETTA
[taking notes] Ah, not so fast, Reg.

JUDITH
Reg, for God's sake. It's perfectly simple. All you've got to do is to go
out of that door now, and try to stop the Romans nailing him up. It's
happening, Reg! Something's actually HAPPENING, Reg! Can't you understand?
Yaaargh! [She rushes out in a rage.]

FRANCIS
Oh. Oh dear.

REG
Hello... and a little ego-trip for the feminists.

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Twilight on November 8, 2007 - 11:13am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Yes, this is so very true, and I always think of it when I'm using fuel for hand labor saving devices (the chainsaw always brings it home). Somehow it is harder to notice when the amounts being used are much higher, such as while driving. I think it's because when you are hurtling down the highway at 70mph, the amount of energy you are using is so large relative to what could be done with hand labor, that it simply cannot be related.

BUT! The problem is that we've built a society that just must have these massive amounts of energy for transportation (to jobs, etc.) and food production. And if you convert the energy we use daily (and unconsciously) to human labor, then each of us is a king of unimaginable wealth with a massive army of slaves to do our bidding.

Look out the window, and they're there under your car pushing you down the highway. They're in the basement heating your water, and some more are out in the yard pumping the water. A few more are behind the TV cranking on that generator. I really feel bad for the ones turning the generator to run all those lights that were left on all night.

What if they all ran away?

And someday, what would my children give to have even a tiny amount of the energy I've just wasted in my lifetime?

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BrianT on November 8, 2007 - 11:22am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Yeah, if the ave American family can't drive 40000 miles a year it will be the end of civilization. There is no pleasure that compare to the pleasure of driving my SUV at 70 mph. Pity our descendants who will not know such unbelieveable ecstacy. All the hours sitting in traffic jams is pretty cool too. Thank God for the invisible energy slaves.

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Twilight on November 8, 2007 - 11:35am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Your point is well taken Brian, but to most here this is still how daily life is. Maybe it is an indication that there is still easy conservation fruit to be picked, I don't know. But still, to get to work most will still need to get into a car. They can go slower, and they can share the ride - but they won't until they absolutely have to. And how would it be enough?

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BrianT on November 8, 2007 - 11:44am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

You can't stop the public from throwing their money away on gasoline. It is their money to spend as they see fit. The guv is obviously clueless or ambivalent on this one so the chips will fall where they may. Hopefully you and I will be OK.

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Twilight on November 8, 2007 - 11:52am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

With luck! I get the feeling the previews are almost over and the feature film is about to start.

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WNC Observer on November 8, 2007 - 12:49pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Yep, the Loony Toons cartoon that has been our oil-guzzling history up to now is ending, with Porky Pig saying:

"Th..th..th..That's all, Folks!"

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cyclelicious on November 8, 2007 - 2:35pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

"If the ave American family can't drive 40000 miles a year it will be the end of civilization."

I'm reading this article in the San Jose Mercury News about the prospect of $4 gas. Some of the comments are interesting:

"This is ridiculous," said Laseanna Halsell, 20, a medical administrative assistant as she pumped six gallons in her 1993 Buick at Moe's Gas Station on McKee Road in San Jose for $3.24 a gallon, a cost of about $20. "I heard about $100 a barrel or something on the news. Cost of living is high. Gas is high. It makes no sense."

Regarding the discussion of how much the per-barrel cost of crude translates into the price at the pump:

"The current situation is very troubling," said Sean Comey of the California State Automobile Association, adding that the rising cost of crude "probably hasn't been completely reflected at the retail level.

"So, as bad as it is now, it's likely to get worse."

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Durandal on November 8, 2007 - 4:59pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Yeah, if the ave American family can't drive 40000 miles a year it will be the end of civilization. There is no pleasure that compare to the pleasure of driving my SUV at 70 mph. Pity our descendants who will not know such unbelieveable ecstacy. All the hours sitting in traffic jams is pretty cool too. Thank God for the invisible energy slaves.

I know there was sarcanol there, but riding a motorcycle is SO much better than riding in an SUV. Well, unless it's raining, or snowing...

~Durandal (http://www.wtdwtshtf.com/)

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Aniya on November 10, 2007 - 11:12pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Hi Twilight,

Your image is beautiful for its truth; I hope you can use it in some way so that others see it, as well.

re: "...what would my children give to have even a tiny amount of the energy I've just wasted in my lifetime?"

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309 comments on DrumBeat: November 8, 2007

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