<DrumBeat: December 28, 2007 The Oil Drum On Energy Transitions Past and Future>

72 comments on My Top 10 Energy Stories of 2007

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tstreet on December 27, 2007 - 11:05am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top

One of the big stories is that Nanosolar is actually producing their thin film solar using printing technology. Another big story you cite says we are running out of indium, a key component of the CIGS process, saying we have only have ten years of indium left. If true, doesn't this still some thunder from the Nanosolar story. Alternatively, is it really true that we are running out. Further, if we are indeed running out, are there any alternatives to Indium on the horizon?

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bunyonhead on December 27, 2007 - 11:10am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I looked on the Nanosolar website and found it difficult to find any information about the efficiency of their thin film technology. Anyone have any pointers here?

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xironman on December 27, 2007 - 11:19am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

If you follow the link that Robert has, they are really secretive about the entire thing

Q). Will Nanosolar begin production this year?

A). Yes, we’re on track with this. Do not expect an Apple style product launch though. Our first 100,000 panels are already set to go into closed, private, utility-scale deployments, with a tall fence around them and not much accessibility to the general public.

Maybe that is just good business sense, but it smells a bit of hype. He also trashes his chief engineer later in the article, not cool in my book. He could have just said they parted ways.

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shastatodd on December 27, 2007 - 1:33pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I have heard it reported that this technology
uses photosensitive dyes, which evidently do not
have the staying power of traditional silicon
based PV technology.

Todd

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LevinK on December 27, 2007 - 3:33pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Actually 10 years of assured reserves is a pretty typical figure, and not that bad one. IIRC lithium reserves for example are also in the 15-20 years range - does this spell an end to Li batteries and plug-in hybrids?

What non-oil peakist fail to understand is that resources with relatively small market are in their infancy of exploration and development compared to oil. Indium circa 2007 is pretty much in the phase oil was in 1907. And why not? Who needs millions of tonnes of Indium nobody will ever use? Even with these high prices, the whole Uranium market for example is paultry $1.4 bln a year. This compared to a daily value of oil of $8bln. So, why dig the whole world for small-value resources nobody has a pressing need of!?!

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tstreet on December 27, 2007 - 4:09pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Further, are we saying we will run out of LCD TVs? Also read in Wikipedia that Indium is less rare than silver. Just wanted some feedback. Every time we have a breakthrough in solar, or whatever, there are always those who spoil the party by pointing to some shortage of something. Further, those, like the Google founders; are they investing tens of millions in technologies that will disappear in ten years. Seems like they or their well paid minions would have checked this problem out.

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john15 on December 27, 2007 - 7:24pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

look to electronics. costs are going up yet prices are still going down. it's called economies of scale. why can't solar experience the same thing. why can't the costs go up but because we produce so much the panels cost less like plasma screens?

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BrianT on December 27, 2007 - 10:52pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

That is not the definition of "economies of scale"-I would have thought the term itself would have tipped you off. You remind me of the guy buying shoes for $3 and selling them for $2- his friend asks-how do you stay in business-his reply: We make it up on volume.

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BobCousins on December 28, 2007 - 2:46pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

"Electronics" is not necessarily a good example. You can miniaturize information processing, but you can't miniaturize power production.

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speek on December 27, 2007 - 2:32pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I have looked a tiny little bit into the Indium issue, and I wonder if it's not just a matter of no one ever really cared that much about Indium before. It appears to be as common as silver in the earth. Yet, no one in the west is specifically mining Indium - it is most often a by-product of zinc production (such as for the Canadian company Teck Cominco).

If no one is specifically mining it, and it is as common as silver, then there would seem to be some hope that production of indium could be substantially increased.

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Engineer-Poet on December 28, 2007 - 11:32am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

If it's a byproduct, there's the potential to promote the production of the primary product by pushing e.g. zinc-air fuel cells and get a two-fer.

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jkissing on December 28, 2007 - 3:32pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Indium was $1000/kg a year or so ago, has since fallen to half that. No sign of distress...

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Arclite on December 28, 2007 - 8:36pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Can't indium be recycled? What's the cost on that?

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72 comments on My Top 10 Energy Stories of 2007

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