Well, $12 billion is well more than the projects were probably worth. I had seen some estimates that they were worth $20 billion, but COP had the biggest investments there and they wrote off $4.5 billion.

If indeed the Venezuelan government's actions amount to theft by some definition agreed to by the courts of some countries, then I certainly hope they get away with it. It seems increasingly obvious to me that the prevailing property rights regime is nothing more than a way to perpetuate a massive intergenerational robbery (of the earth's fossil fuel endowment as well as of a relatively stable climate, among other things), not to mention the ongoing theft of opportunity from billions of our human co-inhabitants of this globe, including the poor of Venezuela. I see no reason from a moral viewpoint to defend this regime.

The best thing that can come of the actions of the Venezuelan government would be slowdown in the depletion of the hydrocarbon resource within their jurisdiction, though this might just be a fortunate unintended consequence of their actions.

RR -- should the USA fairly compensate the Native Americans for a trail of broken treaties, broken promises, and genocide?

Should the USA -- and the US oil industry we are foisting upon Iraq pay fair compensation to the victims of starvation, rape, torture, false imprisonment, loss of loved ones, loss of homes and businesses, and for those millions of Iraqis reduced to refugee status?

How much compensation is owed by big oil companies for knowingly raping the planet, for continuing to push the energy equivalent of crack-cocaine with full knowledge that we are turning the planet into hostile Hell?

Compare "Big Oil" to "Big Tobacco." We all know that Big Tobacco used the same methods of denial and poisoning the well of public information in order to keep making money on cigarettes. Big Oil has done the same.

Now that we've inflicted fatal wounds to our environment, Big Oil attempts to Greenwash itself with token programs that are little more than PR lies on top of all the previous lies.

In addition, Big Oil has for decades raped Native peoples in Nigeria, Iraq and countless other places to get at the oil.. What is the tab for that?

Do you think that most people in the world are still ready to be used up and discarded on the human scrapheap? More folks in far away places are aware that "Big Oil" wants them to give up their future -- including that of their children -- for a "mess of pottage" in the present.

What if we paid these people a premium for access to oil that doubled or tripled the cost of each barrel? Would that not slow consumption, allow these countries to develop, and spur research on alternative energy sources? But it would also take the "plunder value" right out of Big Oil's various share prices.

Big Oil very intentionally operates in a criminal fashion around the world, does it not? Big Oil makes money by propping up violent, psychopathic dictators, does it not? (Remember the Saudis, Saddam Hussein, the Shah of Iran....)

So what does the USA owe (compared to Chavez) and how can we pay? What do Big Oil companies owe around the world and how can it pay?

Chavez' crimes against Big Oil -- very expensive. USA and Big Oil's crimes against humanity -- incalculable....?

I am a shareholder in energy cos via a mutual fund. But I am also well aware that the contracts that the energy cos, and not just the energy cos, were signed by corrupt and corrupted govt's. I am well aware that the US has invaded countries for oil and was complicit in the 2002 coup in Venezuela. I am well aware that our whole way of life is dependent on theft of unimaginable scale from the third world.

I am trying to not let portfolio disease get the better of me. To cry about theft in face of the crimes being committed by our gov't against a major part of the world is, well, while understandable, nevertheless not seeing the forest for the trees.

But even you Robert will be a victim, not of Venezuela, but of our own gov't as the dollar turns into kaka, as further militarization and war ravishes the land, as our kids and grandkids grow up in a society we dare not think about. What's been stolen from them is their future. That's the theft I'm concerned about. I could die happy even if I lost everything but knew they had a decent future.

Chavez is at least trying to see to it that the bottom half of Venezuela has a chance at a better future. No one in a comparable position here gives a rats ass about that.

did the contracts include the phrase "for as long as the grass shall grow" ?

did the indigenous peoples of the Americas ever invite the conquistadors and their followers?

Contracts were signed in good faith

Contracts are divorce documents - the contract will NEVER be referenced if things are going well.

When one lacks a 'world body' for 'contract enforcement' (or other law enforcement) other than getting personally mad, what ya gonna do?

and we conducted ourselves there in a responsible manner.

Considering the history of bribes between oil firms and officials in other nations, the use of 'gunboat diplomacy' over oil - how SURE are you in what you state?

Well, as they say, 'payback's a b*tch'. You can count yourself now with the countless millions around the world who've been screwed out of some/all of their money by our US government over the years in its quest to make our lives better at any cost.

The 300 million is a separate ruling in a New York court.

The ruling is only against PDVSA's assets in England or Wales, which are practically nothing, and only until the next court date. The up to 12 billion is meaningless. They could easily have said up to 100 trillion. If PDVSA only has a few million in England or Wales, that is all that this affects and only until the next court date.

This ruling has absolutely NO impact on day-to-day operations or credit ratings.

This is non-news turned into sensationalized propaganda against Venezuela. The actual intention is to attempt to hurt Venezuela in world markets through this disinformation campaign.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080208/venezuela_exxon.html?.v=1

leanan -

I see that this has been a most contentious thread and has picked the scab off of some long festering wounds ... mainly related to various strongly held views on global corporate power vis-a-vis the largely corrupt control of third-world resourses.

Oil employee Robert Rapier has (quite persuasively) argued that a contract is a contract and that Venezuela is being an 'Indian-giver' for renaging on said contracts. He definitely does have a valid point.

On the other hand, there is also a stong argument that, as a matter of international law, a contract entered into by an illigitimate government (arguably, such as the pre-Chavez kleptocracy government of Venezuela) with a foreign power (such as US oil companies) could be construed as invalid on the basis that said government did not represent the will of the governed, and indeed represented a bypass around the will of the governed. We have seen this sort of thing time and time again, where some tin-horn dictator sells his nation's resources to foreign companies for pennies on the dollar to enrich himself and his chums with untold riches squirreled away in Swiss bank accounts.

I will leave it to the lawyers to sort that one out, but I think there is lot more to this matter than just legal arguments, namely global power politics.

However, the way I see it, the oil in the ground belongs to the people of Venezuela, not to ExxonMobil or Conoco Phillips, regardless of what was written on paper with the prior corrupt regime. However, since both companies have invested many billions in the country, it would only be equitable for Venezuela to compensate said companies for at least some substantial fraction of that amount. Sort of like eminent domain in the US.

I think that is the best we can hope can come of this matter. Once again, the US through it's foreign policy arrogance and ham-fistedness is being squeezed out of one oil source after another.

As I've said before: while the US makes war, the Chinese make deals. I would have never thought I'd see the day when the Chinese would be more welcome in Third World countries than the US.

Wouldn't it be ironic if Venezuela used the courts to delay, delay, delay, just as Exxon has to avoid paying out the compensation to the fishermen affected by the Exxon Valdez disaster?

Sauce for the goose......