![]() | A Sustainable Futures Fund for a Fuel and Climate Emergency | The Oil Drum | Cassandra's curse: how "The Limits to Growth" was demonized | ![]() |
204 comments on DrumBeat: March 9, 2008
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
204 comments on DrumBeat: March 9, 2008
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
TOD:Europe
- Oilwatch Monthly November 2009
- Some predictions on the forthcoming Russian-Ukrainian gas 'crisis'
- The US stimulus and "green jobs" for wind energy
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
- The Bullroarer - Friday 20th November 2009
- The Bullroarer - Friday 13th November 2009
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- The Energy Blog
- Entropy Production
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“He that will not apply new remedies must expect new evils, for time is the greatest innovator.”
—Francis Bacon, Essays
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
isn't it possible that eventually thousands of empty McMansions will be bought for pennies on the dollar by someone with the means.
Yes, but there are 'external costs' that are not controllable.
This person will then go about turning the land back into farm land by hiring people
Here is a partial list of external costs:
Taxes (So you are going to take something of value (a building) then DEVALUING via destruction?
Permits for destruction/waste disposal/even the workers
The locations where the farm topsoil was mostly removed and sold off
Oh, and the population that needs housing - just because a McMansion becomes empty does not remove the housing demand that home used to satisfy.
The home builders treated the topsoil on the lot as a salable asset. You find a sprinkle of dirt under what came with the sod. The destruction of such a place is quite endothermic ... unless you throw a match.
The McMansions are a one way investment and a very poor one. Squatters, salvagers, vandalism, and fires are their lot. Shouldn't be all that long before you'll see folks moving into a title free house and the neighbors welcoming them as long as they get heat, lights, and keep the place up a bit. Eric's assessment of this is dead on.
Well, they are growing grass, and many of those lots are fenced in. A garage could work as a barn/stable with relatively minor modifications. That's a pretty good scenario for small-scale livestock production. Fruit trees can also be planted - a little bit of compost & organic matter right in the planting hole will go a long ways. Once there is a good population of livestock in the area, composting can go into high gear, and then the topsoil built up to turn some of those lawns into productive gardens.
Do you have any idea how useless modern lawns are for growing anything other than that monoculture green carpet? Rebuilding a real soil system of any depth takes years. It's one reason I use raised beds instead of trying to til nearly dead lawn with only an inch or two of soil under it anyway.
Likewise with planting fruit trees. Most of my fruit trees are a few years away yet from providing any serious harvest though the orange tree may give me a few oranges this year.
This is not something that can be done instantly, overnight or via mail order and a Fedex shipment for tens of millions of people. Then there is the problem of learning your local environment, its pests, its growing season(s) and the oddities thereof.
It would all be likely to happen over a long time-scale and very informally - deteriorating suburbs, dereliction and arson, and any would-be developer could simply arrange another 'accidental' fire to get rid of the remains of houses in the areas he was interested in, then buy the land as wasteland.
I doubt that they would or could go to the expense of bringing in topsoil, just work around the houses, or maybe rake the existing topsoil a bit thinner.
In reality though, I can't see the land even being used as farmland in the States, they would just be abandoned.
The only reason agricultural land is in relatively short supply in the States is because of high meat consumption and subsidies for the ethanol scam.
The money in the scenario drawn would not allow for either, so no development of waste land would likely take place as agricultural land would not be in short supply absent these.
It's a different matter in Europe with land in much shorter supply, but then again suburbs there are less extensive.
Is good land really so readily available? With fertilizer and herbicide inputs at risk maybe more land will be needed to feed people.