292 comments on DrumBeat: March 13, 2008
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292 comments on DrumBeat: March 13, 2008
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In that case it is very weird that gold and silver were valued not just as ornaments but as stores of value for thousands of years before fossil fuels were substantially exploited.
What's changed?
That was yesterday, today is another day. What will people do with gold in a fossil fuel depleted stone age society? Will you trade your vegetables for something just because it is shiny?? The new stone age won't be anything like even 2000 B.C. In 2100, there won't be any global, national or even trade between cities. Just how do you suppose people will get around to trade gold tokens for stuff from afar. Maybe read some of Chris Shaws' stuff to get some historical perspective on gold and energy. His 5 articles can be found here: http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3837
He makes the point that energy has always been the one true currency. Think about it. He is right.
I have thought about it, and decided you were incorrect.
You are moving on to another line of argument now the first that the value of gold is dependent on fossil fuels has proved unsustainable.
I do not intend to follow you there, now that the first grounds are proved specious, nor to read 5 articles.
Please sort out the case you wish to present in the first case, and please do not request that anyone read 5 articles - if you wish to make an argument, you should be able to summarise.
I have looked at the alleged loss of value for gold as much as I wish to.
You didn't think for very long. I thought about what Shaw wrote for months before concluding that he is right. Indeed, I read his articles several times. He has much to say about energy and history, and he is quite humorous too. This gave me new insights for thinking about Peak Oil.
Didn't take long to think about, really.
IMO, humans will always value gold. Also IMO, we're not going back to the stone age. If we're unlucky, perhaps a modern dark age. Perhaps.
For every person buying gold there is another person selling gold - I wonder what the person selling the gold is buying with his money. If he has held the gold for any length of time his pile of money has magically grown, but was it a good store of wealth?
Most people are using gold as a compact, very dense, indestructible store of wealth, gold is not convienient any more for day to day financial transactions - they are two different uses.
If you hold gold as a store of wealth no interest is payable, so it is viable long term so long as everybody accepts gold has value - unlike our current fiat, fractional banking, system which must have growth.
All saving methods are risky, gold is no exception.
Maybe he's just meeting a margin call?
It's interesting to see what happened with gold in other societies that suffered economic collapse. The guy from Argentina recommended gold, but said to buy a bunch of cheap gold wedding rings, rather than coins or other investment pieces. He said the dealers would give you the same amount for any piece of gold, regardless of size or quality. And I suppose offering a cheap wedding ring would make you less of a target than flashing around a big coin or ingot.
The Yugoslavia guy didn't recommend gold. What use is gold, when there's no food or fuel to buy? He said other things were far more valuable: soap, cosmetics, toilet paper, cast iron cookware. People would trade food for those items.