My 6 year old son is a pretty talented drawer. He can draw very well and takes an art course at the local art museum and the teacher is enthusiastic about him. We are generally worried about him as he is completely undisciplined; say in learning music or doing anything we tell him to, like learning to read, so we see this drawing talent as one good thing that he could develop.

So when my wife read an article yesterday evening in an educational magazine she gets, which said that when kids learn to read and write and memorize lots of stuff in school they lose their creativity/spontaneity she got worried as our son only has his creativity and is completely undisciplined.

It occurred to me while riding on my bike to work this morning that the western language is based on phonetic symbols/alphabet which anchors language/speaking skills in the left brain hemisphere (right handed). Western civilization is very linear and logically oriented therefore as the left brain hemisphere dominates. However in China they use ideograms (similar to hieroglyphics system of the very long enduring mystically based Egyptian culture) and when a Chinese person has a stroke in the left brain hemisphere they can still speak whereas a westerner cannot. In China the dominant cultural tradition is holistic and cyclical. This would be presumably because the dominant right brain hemisphere organizes itself in this manner.

So it would appear that instead of arguing about linearity or progress vs. cyclical holistic systems or if civilization is good or evil or man himself we might look at some more basic features of how we think and why this has so developed. A balanced way of thinking (between the hemispheres due to our predominant way of communication or learning) might allow us to survive long term.

There might be some tactics to remedy this domination of the left brain hemisphere. For example I was raised right handed as were my parents although they were really left handers. I taught myself writing left handed several years ago and had to retrain my older son (now turned 9) also last year to write left handed after he took a test with a professional who said that he was 90% left handed.

Besides our language and handedness there might be other ways to change/balance our dominant left brain hemisphere mental patterns which apparently doom us personally / societally to perpetual/cyclical self destruction due to a lack of yin/yang left/right brain hemisphere balance. Suggestions would be here welcome. I think ecological economics and similar are a start but these do not go deep enough into the root problem. Psychology and religion are just explanations but explanations and base on logical and not holistic constructs.

If we change literally how we think through simple mechanical changes in handedness and language structure and perhaps through other means perhaps we could tip the balance towards long term stability in human culture. I do no mean to say that China or Egypt were without up/down cycles with wars, etc. as in the west or to romanticize them but just to show that as the current dominant culture is based on the western scientific/economic paradigm which again comes from western concepts of ideology and linearity so that perhaps a simple choice of alphabet over ideogram in the ruling class predetermined the fate of our culture. We could perhaps reverse and arrest this problem but only if it can be recognized as the problem.

You might find this video of interest... it's a lecture given by brain researcher Jill Bolte Taylor on the differences between the brain hemispheres. The most fascinating part is where she describes her personal experience of suffering a left-hemispheric stroke. It's about 20 minutes long, but well worth it.

I couldn't manage to download the flashplayer so it wouldn't play. I read the text and it confirms esoteric religious concepts are bassed on right brain hemisphere.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/03/jill_bolte_tayl.php#more

And I lost my balance and I'm propped up against the wall. And I look down at my arm and I realize that I can no longer define the boundaries of my body. I can't define where I begin and where I end. Because the atoms and the molecules of my arm blended with the atoms and molecules of the wall. And all I could detect was this energy. Energy. And I'm asking myself, "What is wrong with me, what is going on?" And in that moment, my brain chatter, my left hemisphere brain chatter went totally silent. Just like someone took a remote control and pushed the mute button and -- total silence.
And at first I was shocked to find myself inside of a silent mind. But then I was immediately captivated by the magnificence of energy around me. And because I could no longer identify the boundaries of my body, I felt enormous and expansive. I felt at one with all the energy that was, and it was beautiful there.

As an implicit test of your thesis that choice of written language representation determining dominant culture, one would expect there to be much less difference between the two kinds up to the point that a significant proportion of the population became literate. Given that illiteracy was the norm until relatively recent historic times when I think you could already see the distinct cultural patterns in east and west, I'm not sure it supports your contention.(Actually it's more complicated than that in that, from what little I understand, both the written representation and the kind of "deep language structure" -- in the Chomsky sense -- of the language, which apply even as spoken, differ. So you could argue the spoken forms might hugely affect brain processing, but I'm unconvinced.)

I'm naturally right handed and at twenty forced myself to learn to use the computer mouse and brush my teeth left-handed. (I type, write and sketch an awful lot and I was worried about carpal-tunnel type issues from doing everything with my dominant right hand.) Fifteen years later I can't say I've observed any particular increase in holistic thinking.

he is more self confident and natural, can learn interact better. I think this is a problem with left handers who are forced into right handdness, they don't fit and so are suppressed and become more neurotic their whole lives without knowing why to a certain extent, not developing their natural capabilities.

Raising my right hand here, a lefty who was forced to use my right hand to write etc, in school. As a result I can't really write but can print. On the other hand, I've found building houses, working on telecom towers, it really comes in handy having both hands to use. Take shingling for instance, perched on a ladder sometimes you just can't swing the hammer with your left hand but can with your right. Or if your left arm is getting tired driving 16d nails, you can easily switch.

Same thing with tower climbing being able to rely on both hand made positioning at extreme heights much easier. I still throw a ball with my left hand but I really consider myself more ambidextrouse than lefty now.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. :-)

The left-right brain thing is similar to cornucopists techno-fixes or abiotic oil.

It is pop stuff the media like to tout, as do some irresponsible, unscrupulous authors. Compare to: Men are Martians contrasted to Women are Venusians. Sounds a bit scuzzy?

Nothing in the pop or pseudo Science press about left/right brain can, or *should be*, related to ordinary individuals, such as boys who paint, adults who ride bikes, engineers who make plans, drivers who brake, women who knit, Generals who take military decisions, and on and on.

Perhaps a mechanical metaphor can serve: the brain as a material machine. If you knock off a part of the thing, it can still move forward, light up, and reverse for three meters. The other functions don’t work. If you knock off another part, the lights have gone, there is no more reverse, but great speed forward can be attained. So, the different parts of the machine react differently to destruction - to the left or right (or front or back) doesn’t have the same effect. That does not mean that the ‘left or right’ parts have specific functions, its a complex system, coordinated.

No way these left-right (or back front) effects can be related to the characteristics of the machine as a whole, with some machines being “ohhh.... right controlled”...or “mostly left” - a ‘left’ tractor? Might Chavez invent it? ;)

People have different interests and different ‘gifts’, live in different milieus, adapt differently, etc. Nothng to do with left or ride side of the brain.

So please have some understanding and pity for those who think hydrogen will solve problems or that oil was injected into the earth by some mysterious action of solar rings managed by ...UFOS?

No, you're wrong-if I had been taught to write with my left hand I would have a ton more money, or maybe I would be the oldest contestant to ever win American Idol-I would sing my hit song while throwing together some Jackson Pollock type piece of garbage. Damn those primary school fascists.

hazel nut,

It was just a thought I had riding to work on my bike and I have enough experience with relearning handedness that I know the limits of the concept and how hard it is to change one person with a lot of effort after 40 years of age for minimal results so no I am not into quick and easy mass solutions for society or working on an impractical level. However if you do not start at the most basic level you just don't have a solid enough foundation for your new building. Basic human behavioural patterns must be changed. I also have been doing yoga for 13 years and Tai Chi for 6 years and meditation as well so I am felxible in my use of techniques for self change and experiment and a serious and non dogmatic. I do not think a new invention will fix everything. Maybe we are the problem as humans and a new species is called for to start over and we should go extinct. But we might need a totally new approach. Beyond controlled evolutionary change, which nobody knwos how to control without making Frankenstein's monster I can only suggest using those levers we understand to alleviate problems in modern human nature which occur due to overemphasis on linear thinking, etc. which might promote the seven deadly sins, alienation,etc. by using modern techniques and Asian techniques like yoga to balance us out as individuals and as a culture. Who knows if we can get a second chance after the coming PO dieoff. Why just continue repaeting all our mistakes again and again due to simple misunderstandings like language type, handedness or a cultural emphasis on logical thinking vs. holistic thinking. Of course it is deeper. Duality is wrong and unity is the way. It sounds like the link above from a video of the lady who had a stroke shows similar to mystical experiences in some ways. We just have to be able to consciously control that experience then we do not need to run around seeking happiness in externals. This is truly just a trick. From the indian theread I take it most indians, poor as dirt get this idea better than we do.

Heh, @ Brian T, it is said that left-handers are more ‘original’, more ‘creative’, etc. - most likely simply because they are different from the majority. There is solid evidence they die younger (from many places in the world) but why exactly is not known, perhaps simply because they live in a right-handed world. (Google turns up stuff.) I believe insurers do not use this categorization. @ galactic, oh I agree with most of what you write, it’s general thrust anyway. Also - Forcing children to ‘switch’ is a poor idea and not very current today, though of course who knows what happens on the ground here or there.

So, to sum up (moving far away from OIL..), 1) left-right handeness is related to left-right brain dominance in complex ways (see link, just the first reasonable hit off google), 2) culture and the construction of our world play a tremendous role - think sports, or flying a Boeing.

Enough!

http://www.indiana.edu/~primate/brain.html

I can only golf left handed,bat a baseball left handed, and played hockey left handed. I write and throw right handed so it is all messed up-there are probably millions in the same situation-have no idea of any relevance.

I can very much believe that forcing someone into writing with their non-dominant hand can be have very negative results (both neurologically and because of the psychological implication that "there's something wrong with you"). As far as I know, in the UK forcing people to be right-handed has not been done for at least twenty years, and that's a good thing too in my opinion.

What I'm more sceptical about is that if there was a push towards using "right brain" languages we as a population would develop "holistic thinking" that would lead to societies that avoid some of the problems of current western society.

I have found that any paricular task takes time to learn fluidly with left hand after being used to using right hand. The brain and musles problbly store it in memory onthe other brain side and that side of the brain needs practice like a muscle.

I suspect scientific studies would show some mental differences. I think I am better adjusted but i do lots of self development work so it is hard to say what is working bettter for me, to separate the various "therapies" out.

What that all could do for society if everyone got into it is a different matter.

Actually it's more complicated than that in that, from what little I understand, both the written representation and the kind of "deep language structure" -- in the Chomsky sense -- of the language, which apply even as spoken, differ. So you could argue the spoken forms might hugely affect brain processing,

Great point. Maybe we could put a European and then a Chinese under one of those magnetic resonance machines and see how their brains work wtih regards to language to figure this out with radioactive markers and such.

It would be interesting to try the same with right and left handed people and with people who change from right to left handed over the time period they switch to see how brain functions change.

People like Tibetan monks do similar tests and their brain scans are pretty interesting as well compared to normal peoples. They can control this stuff and that is the big difference to us. That is an art/science in their "religion", if you want to call it that, is actually more a higher form of scientific brain/consciousness control with nontechnical means.

The **classic** pov is that in daily life, in functioning, in resistance to insult (brain damage), in learning capacity, in diversification (learning new languages, etc.) the language spoken makes little difference. - They all work pretty much the same way though the surface grammar is not the same, and differ from lang. to lang. Chomsky would be the first to say that.

The written transcriptions, however, as they are wildly varied, are conserved (insult) / not, easier / harder to learn, more / less easeful to use, extensible to other scripts, or not, etc.

Well known example: China claims it has no dyslexics, as the written system is - more or less whole word - one graphic positioned in a rectangle corresponds to one meaning (like a picture, but the pictographic quality is much exaggerated.) Italy, by contrast, has problems with hyperlexics - children or ppl who can read aloud text and haven’t a clue what it means.

pardon for going on about this.

Interesting. Have you noticed a change in your and your son's mental patterns since switching handedness?

he is more self confident and natural, can learn interact better. I think this is a problem with left handers who are forced into right handdness, they don't fit and so are suppressed and become more neurotic their whole lives without knowing why to a certain extent, not developing their natural capabilities.

Hey Galactic;
Ever the moderate (and a very impressionistic Left-hander myself), I don't want to overreact to Left-brain cultural dominance with an overemphasis on the opposite. As ever, we have to find a balance of the two natures, and not just take sides, as it were.

As with the other Left-Right, we have to be able to orchestrate between 'staying and going', 'holding on and letting go', and between 'literal and figurative' etc.

Looking back, I see that you do present it as rebalancing. I'd only noticed phrases like 'reverse and arrest this problem' on the first read, but didn't mean to imply that you were being extreme, either.

For me growing up, 'Discipline' was a word I always got stuck on. It was the "D" word.. I've worked to find in myself appropriate tools of discipline and group leadership structures that are productive and functional, but also are not blindly 'disciplinarian'.

A memorable image from my years in NYC (which has a leash-law), was a dog and owner, where the dog wore his leash, but carried the rest of it himself in his mouth, and he and his human walked along at 'leash-length' anyway. It's my icon for 'Self-discipline'

Blessed are the artists!
Bob

That dog is a bit like my kid. He leads however.

I'm a lot like your six year old - creative and naturally averse to discipline. I secretly learned to read when I was three but refused to put any effort into memorizing the order of the alphabet until I was about six or seven. Memorizing things like passages from the Bible and multiplication tables was a huge part of my education from first grade until fourth grade, then I switched to public schools. I'm still a creative and largely undisciplined person, so I don't think my early education changed my personality or the way my brain is wired. For people like me and probably your son, it's important to be motivated to learn and to have room to figure things out on one's own.

The left brain/right brain thing probably isn't as black-and-white as you may think. Individual brains can vary quite a bit. Good luck.

PS I'm a lefty as well.

We have been trying to get our son interested in keyboard lessons for a month or two and he would just play games mostly with the teacher except for maybe 5 minutes. My wife and the teacher were about to give up. Yesterday however he paid attention the whole half hour, a miracle! Discipline is neccessary to get throught he basics and then creativity takes over when you know what you are doing, in any "discipline". A master had to memorize routines first laboriously as a child or a student. After that the right brain integrates the information fluidly. For an artistic "little genius" getting him past this painful memorizing phase is the critical problem. Afterwards he will get the idea, have fun with it and learn easily, like with drawing, I hope.

His older brother is the absolute opposite, slow and methodical, disciplined and conscientious. He will obviously never be an artistic genius but loves science, despite his left handedness.

galacticsurfer thanks, very interesting read.

The Alphabet Versus the Goddess speaks directly to this topic. I found it fascinating, I think you will to.

http://www.amazon.com/Alphabet-Versus-Goddess-Conflict-Between/dp/014019...

"Literacy has promoted the subjugation of women by men throughout all but the very recent history of the West," writes Leonard Shlain. "Misogyny and patriarchy rise and fall with the fortunes of the alphabetic written word."

That's a pretty audacious claim, one that The Alphabet Versus the Goddess provides extensive historical and cultural correlations to support. Shlain's thesis takes readers from the evolutionary steps that distinguish the human brain from that of the primates to the development of the Internet. The very act of learning written language, he argues, exercises the human brain's left hemisphere--the half that handles linear, abstract thought--and enforces its dominance over the right hemisphere, which thinks holistically and visually. If you accept the idea that linear abstraction is a masculine trait, and that holistic visualization is feminine, the rest of the theory falls into place. The flip side is that as visual orientation returns to prominence within society through film, television, and cyberspace, the status of women increases, soon to return to the equilibrium of the earliest human cultures. Shlain wisely presents this view of history as plausible rather than definite, but whether you agree with his wide-ranging speculations or not, he provides readers eager to "understand it all" with much to consider. --Ron Hogan --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

From Library Journal
The advantages of a literate society are self-evident, but is there a dark side to language? In this extraordinary book, Shlain, a surgeon and the author of Art and Physics (LJ 9/1/91), argues that when cultures acquire literacy, the brain's left hemisphere dominates the right?with enormous consequences. Alphabetic writing, Shlain believes, "subliminally fosters a patriarchal outlook" at the expense of feminine values. Focusing on Western cultures, Shlain surveys world history and religion to illustrate how alphabet literacy fosters extremes of intolerance. Indeed, a subtheme of the book is that overreliance on the left hemisphere "initially leads a society through a period of demonstrable madness." Such aberrations as group suicide, religious persecution, and witch-hunting are the result of a dominant linear, reductionist, and abstract method of perception. While admitting that "correlation does not prove causality," Shlain presents a forceful case based on a wealth of circumstantial evidence. An absorbing, provocative, and, ironically, highly literate work that should receive considerable review attention; recommended for most public and academic libraries.?Laurie Bartolini, MacMurray Coll. Lib., Springfield, IL
Copyright 1998 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

and yet the person never learned the word irony...

GalacticSurfer writes: "Besides our language and handedness there might be other ways to change/balance our dominant left brain hemisphere mental patterns which apparently doom us personally / societally to perpetual/cyclical self destruction due to a lack of yin/yang left/right brain hemisphere balance. Suggestions would be here welcome. I think ecological economics and similar are a start but these do not go deep enough into the root problem. Psychology and religion are just explanations but explanations and base on logical and not holistic constructs."

You might want to join Jay Hanson's new yahoo group with the URL below: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/killer_ape-peak_oil/

His group discusses such issues. Here's a snippet of their discussions.

"This group mainly discusses what the evolved human brain "does". Besides "what the brain does", we can also discuss (to a limited extent) "how the brain works". Of most interest will be fitness strategies which evolved to address the type of absolute resource conditions imposed by population "overshoot", "peak oil", and at least a hundred years of falling "net energy". Also of interest, are critiques of current political arrangements, "realpolitik" (practical politics), and neoclassical economic theory."

Enjoy!

members only

Like one of the other posters, I think the right/left stuff has been way overdone. It's not that the phenomenon isn't real in the brain -- brain researchers have clearly established lateralization of various capacities. But projecting this stuff into an explanation of differences between wester v. eastern culture, holism v reductionism and so forth is a very slippery business and has gone way beyond what the actual facts can justify.

I also was converted left to right. I have always been undisciplined and creative. Any connection? Maybe. But it would confuse the heck out of me to try to undo any of it now. We are all of us the sum total of the slings and arrows that assail us in our passage.

Here's advice no parent ever takes: don't worry overly much about your son. 90 pct of the time, it turns out you worried about the wrong thing. The reason you won't take it is genetic: in other words, I'm full of shit. I still worry about my kids even though they're in their 30s. But the things I worried about when they were young were often not the things I should have. And my worries now are wasted, because things are completely beyond my control. So you see, the advice I give and neither of us can take is good advice.

One poster speaks of neurosis and other pathologies associated with conversion. This I flatly and vehemently deny -- I don't care what my wife, kids and friends say.

I have also been doing waht they call "energy work". When you do yoga or Tai Chi correctly for many years and then maybe some breathing exercises your enrgy body(maybe electrical network of nerves across whole body) gets more stimulated over time. This can be felt as tingling on the skin, along spinal cord, etc. Now the corpus collosum connects the two brain halves and the better this connection is the bettter teh brain operates as a whole. As I had developed what they call "kundalini" or "chi" very heavily I was able to rapidly change my hand orientation over some months. I felt the energy between the brain halves flowing. At any rate when one is conscious of the "electrical/energetic impulses" then it is easier to control what were previously subconscious or autonomous impulses. I think as I said above that the Yogis have litersally a mind/body control science. Teh word religion or vauger "spirituality" is not adequate.

So as you and others here say it is a lot more complicated. We know very little and every one is different. This is probably why we have to grab ancient knowledge and people like the Dalai Lama under an MRI and ask him to teach us all his technique to be cool in times of turmoil or we are just subject to our own primal urges.