Yes, on reflection I was actually just editing it down when I discovered you already had and notice it's now uptop anyway.

Karlof1 - I have seen your diligent efforts over at CD and really appreciate you hanging in there. I wish I had the chops to dive in on some of these delusional comment threads but I know my limitations.

Also kudos to Arraya for dukeing it out over at Mish’s .

For what it’s worth I do believe that many readers see the logic of your comments or at least get curious enough to seek out answers for themselves.

Cheers!

I'm currently engaged in just such a debate with a person at CommonDreams who calls Hubbert a shill and tool for big oil,

Again - The history books are filled with shills, liars, tools and deception that result in shafting for people. This person understands this and feels they are getting the shaft. I can't fault them for assuming that the price is a form of being jerked around. Because I'm sure that within the structure of the oil business there *IS* people who are looking at the present situation and trying to maximize their profit in a way that others would feel is via deception.

I'm just shocked at the lack of people defending such as 'it is the way "the market" works'.

(The only way to avoid the shills, liars, tools et la is to avoid playing their game. Eris is unwilling to avoid their game, and is using selected data to argue their position "Having followed this issue closely over the last decade I can tell you what I’ve read doesn’t bear this out." You won't be able to convince Eris that s/he is wrong, but *DO* post your best case and let others decide who is correct.)

I would have a great deal more respect for Monbiot if he addressed the real issue in the UK, and that is that, as a small Island, we are way passed full. Our population is too great and we are set to increase our population by an equivalent of two Londons in the next two decades.

As our population grows, so too will our gross national carbon footprint. And this will exceede any Carbon Targets we set our selves.

All here know that this will, of course, not happen as we fall into fuel and energy poverty, and as we fail to produce any goods of substantial use, we will fail to purchase adequate food stuffs from outside.

Die-off will occur by: energy poverty; famine; and ultimately, social unrest, which may well verge on civil war or race war.

Because the UK Gov has enjoyed 12 years of unprecedented consumer led growth, low interest rates and a large majority, it has been able to milk the UK Tax payer and create non jobs, bizzarre and nonessential programs and feed a client base of underclass.

This was set to continue, but, the ramp in oil prices and food prices now competes with the Chancellor's hand in our pocket book.

Interest rates, flat wage increases, energy, food and fuel increases now competes with a decade of stealth taxes and increases in duty.

The UK tax paying milch - cow is only good for so much, and then the teat dries up.

The teat has dried up.

I have no problem with taxing the 'sins', but when you also tax the 'good', then a rebellion will happen.

Its happening now. A government cannot tax, tax and tax again, especially when so much is clearly wasted and none is hypothecated to good works such as public transport, underpinning a renaissance in nuclear power etc.

The price of crude has some impact on fuel, but the duty levied and the overall Value Added Tax escalates beyond this.

This Government announced an effective doubling of Vehicle Excise Duty on cars and it was retrospective on vehicles manufactured between 2001-2006.

It was masquerading as a 'green tax'.

It is not so. It is a tax on middle to low income drivers who cannot suddenly switch to a new , low emmission vehicle and so this demographic cohort is trapped with double VED tax, no chance of selling the said vehicle and just too strapped for cash to buy a prius
(the merits of which are highly suspect since the bulk of a vehicles life cycle carbon emissions are actually in the manufacturing phase).

Fine.

UK Gov wants to go 'green'?

Then:

1. Recognise that: As a nation we are full up - people we got.
2. No social security for able bodied people that have left school as long as they are not disabled. (I think you called it tough love in the US). There is work if you look for it.
3. You want babies? - fine , pay for them your selves: should not be a charge on the state.
4. Consider if we need any of the following none-jobs on the public purse:

'Community enforcement officers' (Dog poo and anti smoking wardens)
'Lesbian , Gay, Bisexual , Transgender Outreach Coordinators'
'Five a day healthy living officers'
'Real nappy coordinators'
'Diversity Awareness Officers'

Yes, these jobs plus inflation proof, index linked pensions do exist in the UK.

You could cut about 25% of all government employees by tomorrow lunch time. Take 3% off income tax and increase fuel duty by the following day - AND USE THE SURPLUS FOR PUBLIC WORKS

But we wont.

We will slide into anarchy.

Ten more years. Thats what we got.

Ten years.

I once wrote to Alan Duncan about three years ago regarding peak oil.

In short, his reply was :

'Not to worry my pretty little head....go back to sleep.... I was in the oil business and I know there is more than enough oil out there etc...'

So, was he a fool or a knave three years ago?