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475 comments on DrumBeat: June 4, 2008

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FiniteQuantity on June 5, 2008 - 5:49am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The one and only reason there is excess wealth to be stored and for you and many others to suck the teat of is because the US has raped and pillaged the rest of the World securing way more than our fair share of what the world has to offer , even in the face of mass death and suffering .

Can you give some examples of what you are talking about regarding "raped and pillaged". I can see where the destruction of this continent has been severe, including the mass murders of a people who were living a sustainable lifestyle and the destruction of massive amounts of forests. But what are you talking about regarding the rest of the World? Would you make the same comment of a wealthy person in Switzerland?

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veganmaster on June 5, 2008 - 8:11am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

If you need examples of the U.S. imposing hegemony and usurping the resources of poor countries, then you just haven't been paying attention! ;) I think his point is that there are sundry externalities that support the decadent lifestyle of Americans. And Energy Descent is going to tear down and then turn a harsh light onto the intricate dying connections that support the throw-away cheap oil lifestyle.

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FiniteQuantity on June 5, 2008 - 12:42pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

What have we usurped outside the US? (Usurp 1 a: to seize and hold (as office, place, or powers) in possession by force or without right b: to take or make use of without right )

If you say Iraq, that hasn't been a source of wealth at this point. What have we usurped - siezed without right - from other countries that made us wealthy?

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karlof1 on June 5, 2008 - 10:06am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The "raping and pillaging" was/is institutionalized through IMF, World Bank and WTO policies, as this item about Africa makes clear. And prior to that we had "traditional" Imperialism/Colonialism.

A thesis was put forward by Eric Williams in Capitalism & Slavery that African Chattel Slavery provided the capital required for the West to industrialize; thus, the Swiss being the Bankers of Europe, certainly benefited. Indeed, it's been put forth that all whites, even the poorest and those imprisoned and transported, benefited from slavery. That such theses are controversial in the White world is unsurprising.

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FiniteQuantity on June 6, 2008 - 12:38am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I can't believe I didn't think of US slavery. That was pretty pathetic on my part.

But as far as you article goes, I am totally fed up with some guy in a suit talking like they know the story and not saying a thing about population. Africa doesn't have enough food for its people and loans from the IMF are talked about and not a word about their rapid population growth for decades, if not a century? Alarming, astonishing, startling, and in the end I have only one thing to say to the guy in the article - sit down and put a sock in it. How many back flips will these old pundits do before they ever find the balls to talk about population growth?

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karlof1 on June 6, 2008 - 10:49am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

THis response is real late in the day, so to speak, and unlikely to be read. Anyway, I've read Walden Bello's items for the last 2 decades and on many occasions he's talked about the issue of population. In fact, he was one of the few "pundits" to incorporate the Limits to Growth implications into his analysis. There is also a very substantial record of the cited Western institutions neocolonial/neoimperialist policy goals and depradations.

I suggest you read When Corporations Rule The World and a few other holistic information sources to increase your knowledge of how the System and its managers work.

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FiniteQuantity on June 6, 2008 - 4:13pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

He needs to talk about it all the time. Particularly when he is talking about Africa not having enough food now when it used to. They also have a lot more people than they used to.

If you want to place the poverty of Africa on Western corporations and countries, you are leaving one group out. African leaders. There are no invasions taking place in Africa from the west. Anything that takes place in Africa takes place with the approval of their leaders.

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karlof1 on June 7, 2008 - 2:24am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Anything that takes place in Africa takes place with the approval of their leaders.

How democratic have those, mostly educated at Western institutions, Compradore Leaders been? How many enslaved "their" populaces to loans they skimmed 20-30% or more from and moved to Swiss accounts before being thrown out via a coup or revolution? I totally disagree with your assertion that "There are no invasions taking place in Africa from the west," as invasions don't need to be made by armies to be devastating.

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475 comments on DrumBeat: June 4, 2008

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