Nate - I think this is the first time I've seen this version of this data plotted at the decade scale.

So at 31 billion barrels per year we are consuming 310 billion barrels of oil per decade. There are only three decades in human history where we discovered this amount of oil - the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. In the recent past we've gotten nowhere close.

So this has to be the most sh*t scary chart I've ever seen.

I was looking for the time for half measures is over quote but this one from Matt was the one that was live at the time....

“Data always beats theories. 'Look at data three times and then come to a conclusion,' versus 'coming to a conclusion and searching for some data.' The former will win every time.”
—Matthew Simmons, ASPO-USA conference, Boston, MA, October 26, 2006

That chart would be less scary if our recovery % of STOOIP has been increasing dramatically to offset lower discoveries over that time frame but as you know recovery has been stuck at 35% for a very long time. ( The average global oil recovery factor is about 30-35% , Geologist Francis Harper, BP using IHS data)

New EOR methods (e.g. CO2 injection) hold promise, but need precisely the right type of fields to work economically.

Ergo, I agree with you, it is scary chart.

Haven't the oil gurus set aside $100 billion plus for exploration this year? With that sort of outlay, they must be at the very least a little bit confident about crude's future... Surely?

The TOTAL CEO says replacement cost is $80/bbl. If that is correct, your $100 billion will get you about 1.25 billion barrels, enough oil for about 15 days.

Huh? Thought I said $100B+ for "exploration"; as in, searching for more. They must be somewhat confident in finding "something".

Mustn't they?

I can guarantee you that they will find "something." The problem is whether it will make a material difference. Hubbert found more than 50 years ago that a one-third increase in estimated URR for the Lower 48 only postponed the projected Lower 48 peak by five years.

But, but, but (stammer, stammer)...

Why do the newspapers, the TV heads, radio commentators, presidents of motoring bodies, MS in general rarely talk about this - particularly given recent fuel spikes? And when someone does phone in and drops the line, "the world is running out of oil", why is such a comment never expanded upon? Why don't other listeners phone in and ask, "Did that guy just say, 'the world is running out of oil'? What did he mean?"

Why, after nearly NINE MONTHS of first seeing the doco, "A Crude Awakening" do I still seem to be the only one in my immediate circle who is asking questions?

And, and, and (more stammering)...

Man, I thought marriage was frustrating!

Well,

Honestly it seems to be a variety of things IMO. Politicians are generally very ignorant people, who either haven't heard of peak oil, don't understand it or are in completely denial of it. Many politicians and the MSM have been talking about the falling dollar and speculation mainly. Today on C-Span, Michael Greenberger
http://www.law.umaryland.edu/faculty/profiles/faculty.html?facultynum=059
did a good job of being ignorant of the oil markets in front of the senate who regarded him as an expert. He stated 50-60% of the current price could be speculation, and then Senator Olympia Snow R-Maine, proclaimed this is not a supply and demand issue. When you have lawyers, Politician and Businessmen, trying to mess with energy policy and grasping energy markets, you are bound to worsen the problem. Most people as I have seen many a time again, are simply not willing to sit down and do a small amount of research over the subject. America has two emotions and only two, complacency and panic, we won't do hardly anything till we are on the downside of the curve. It's kind of sad, but as days go by I have a less and less hope for the future seeing our ignorant politicians and stupid people. Good for you though, you sat down and did some research, and you know the future, which 99.9% of people do not, that's an advantage right?

Thanks for the reply, Swords and hello again. Still haven't decided if it's an advantage or not (perhaps if I had shares in Woodside; but a definate NO at parties - "Please, no more red wine for the crazy guy in the corner asking gloomy questions!").

Then again, my dad, who's turning 68, and myself are booked in to get our motorbike licenses in July. Guess that's a start.

Regards, Matt B

Dear Joe,

you can do one of two things at this point:

1. Prepare yourself and your family for the Tsunami (i.e. get off the beach)...
2. Run around on the beach asking why everyone is still sun-bathing while its 'obvious' that the white crispy froth on the distant horizon is "not right"...

I've tried 2 for a while, I'm leaning more and more towards "1 Mode" now...

To get a decade perspective multiply direct fossil fuel cost inputs to your life by a factor of 5 {transport, heat, electricity, food) and determine the effect... Is your life changed? Only the very rich will answer "No".

Nick.

Thanks Nick and you're probably right... Though, I would have flapped my arms about for at least a few minutes before grabbing the kids; and probably would have shouted, "there's a tidal wave coming", in the days before people knew what a tsunami was.

BTW, that's one of my complaints about the term "Peak Oil" (someone once replied, "P Coyle? Who's that?"). A term like, "The world is running out of oil", or something more mainstream should be discussed further.

As for running around on the beach first, I sent the following off this morning to one of the local so-called TV current affair shows, along with an intro, just for the hell of it. But as you say, doubt I'll get a reply...

True or False?

• An estimated 100 tons of organic material must be cooked for millions of years under ideal conditions to produce a single barrel of crude oil.

• Each year, mankind consumes more than 30 billion barrels of crude; or around 160,000 litres every second.

• We use crude for the majority of transport, rubber and plastic (mostly non-recyclable and toxic), bitumen, pesticides, crop farming, to name a few.

• In the last 30 years, few significant new oil fields have been found to replace the aging ones. This year alone, oil companies will spend over 100 billion dollars in exploration, with no guarantee of success. Nonetheless, they will want to recoup their costs.

• Significant fields that have been discovered are deep beneath the ocean and very expensive to get to.

• Within the next decade, most of the 500 largest fields will near their use-by dates for cheap and affordable oil.

• Mother Nature created a limited amount of liquid energy. Man-made alternatives (on a massive scale) are decades away and will cost trillions.

• By 2050, the world population is expected to be around 9 billion people. To get there, on average an extra 75 million births (that’s on top of those that cancel out deaths) must occur each year. That’s around an extra 200,000 births each day – mouths to feed, clothe and shelter.

So…
Is the world running out of “easy” (affordable) oil?
What will a litre of petrol cost in 2020? Or a plane ticket to Sydney?
Will there be enough liquid fuel to go around?
Is life as we know it today sustainable for decades to come? Or a mere few years?
If there’s a problem with how much affordable oil is left (no-one really knows how much remains!), shouldn’t we be discussing this in a little more depth?
Or are the above points and questions not A Current Affair?

Is life as we know it today sustainable for decades to come? Or a mere few years?

Around 4 years, if you are not too picky about 'as we know it today' would be my estimate.

ACA is far too busy one-upping Today Tonight, defending convicted drug-runner Corby, and castigating single mums, dole bludgers, and dodgy used car salesmen moonlighting as Home Removators who are killing our fat kids to be bothered with such a piddly little item such as Cheap Oil running out.

No, much easier to do an 'expose' on petrol stations ripping off 'working families' by putting the price up the day before a Long Weekend. Damn you, Big Oil! :p

In late 2005 I bought the website: www.megatrends2020.com with the intention of defining the major themes that will impact our lives to 2020. I chose to research Energy first as it seemed to me the single most important theme (I had heard somewhere that the oil price accounts for ~40-50% of GDP swings so that sounded like a reasonable backdrop to the rest of the trends).

So off I went researching...

I got into this one thread so much I never finished the others. The more I discovered the more I realised that none of the others really mattered. This was the one 'trend' that would define the shape of our lives in the decades ahead. The problem was that it wasn't a trend, it was a trend reversal!

Rather than continue I decided last summer to write up all I had learned -I called the result: Peak Oil Joining The Dots:
http://www.megatrends2020.com/Peak_Oil__Joining_The_Dots.doc

I have updated the specualtive timeline and it is now available online:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8745365@N04/2504887199/sizes/o

Personally I have a very rough 5 year plan that basically involves going 'off grid'/Home food production/no debt and I am now in the process of downsizing to prepare (selling my Thai Penthouse -I live in London, UK). I don't think most airlines will last the next decade, airlines that operate business traveller level fares with passengers packed in like sardines might just survive...

My 'best guess' at when things start to get 'really sticky' -i.e. major amounts of demand destruction kick in- is around 2012 +- a year or two, so not long really...

Regards, Nick.

I'd go along with most of that - fine job, Nick!
Where I differ would be mainly in moving some of the events forward in time.
What would be useful if you have time would be a greatly expanded view for 2008-15.
A lot of 'interesting' things should happen in this time frame.
I would suggest for one that this winter should see an emergency budget in the UK as the balance of payments widens towards infinity and the budget deficit spirals with rising unemployment and low or nil growth.
Long distance tourist destinations should get a huge hit together with property prices there and tourist airlines in the following summer.

Nick, I am thinking that we are about at the stage that a sector by sector forecast could be attempted, although it would be patchy as none of us are full-time on these matters.
To take one example, it seems to me that the age of the Football mega event may be on the wane.
In the UK, major clubs are highly leveraged, with Manchester United, for instance, having large debts after a £790million takeover, requiring an interest payment of £62million pa.
Wages to turnover is over43%:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7180767.stm
BBC NEWS | Business | Success boosts Man Utd finances

I would expect that business model to rapidly unravel, with the most highly leveraged clubs having to sell players to reduce the wage bill, as recession means falling ticket sales and prices and reduced sales of replica kit etc.

Nationally backed teams like Real Madrid should do relatively well, as the politicians try to keep the circuses part of bread and circuses going at all costs for a depressed population.

By 2010 I would expect distress sales of large British clubs, and re-negotiation of players salaries downwards.

American football should do even worse, I assume, as large distances are regularly covered to play matches across a much greater area.

Hi Nick,

Are you going 'off grid'/Home food production in London? Would be interested in where and what you are planning to do.

Thai Penthouse sounds like a good central location for a TOD party.

noutram

I think your "joining the dots" document is a nice compilation.

The only thing I think you might want to reconsider is that the current reserves of Uranium should not be considered a constraint on future production.

There is a few orders of magnitude more out there once we bother to look for it (no one has in the past ~15 years due to the Russian nuke decommissioning flooding the market).

Other than what I consider an overly pessimistic view on the future potential of fission, I think you are spot on with the energy analysis.

"the world is running out of oil"
And has been since the first day oil was pumped.

And that's the problem. I'm 40 too. Don't you remember the '70s, when everyone knew that we were running out of oil? Just like Daniel Yergins loves to say: the world has run out of oil five time in the last 150 years. We've gotten an incredibly thick skin to the whole concept. Til, of course, the day it starts to really hurt.

The day I lose my job because of it.

The day I don't get any unemployment..

The day I wait in line two hours to get into the store and don't come home with anything to show for it.

Forget the deap analyses here. Look at perspectives (thanks for bringing it up Westex):

During George W.'s presidency, the world will have used 20% of all the oil IT WILL EVER USE...

Cheers, Dom

A correction regarding total oil consumption during the reign of George Bush the Second, it's about 10% of conventional oil that we will ever use (based on Deffeyes' HL estimate).

In round numbers, we are using about 25 Gb of of C+C per year. Through 2005 we had used about 1,000 Gb, and Deffeyes gave us another 1,000 Gb of remaining conventional. So, during the first four year term we used 100 Gb, or 10% of all oil ever used. And during his second term, we will have used 10% of all remaining conventional reserves (according to Deffeyes). However, this is 200 Gb in 8 years, or 10% of Deffeyes' estimate for world URR (C+C) of 2,000 Gb.

So, pursuant to Deffeyes, in the first term we used 5% of total conventional URR, during second term, 5% of total conventional URR.

Hubbert found more than 50 years ago that a one-third increase in estimated URR for the Lower 48 only postponed the projected Lower 48 peak by five years.

...if that increase came early enough to substantially increase the peak flow rate.

If, on the other hand, today's oil production rate is more-or-less as high as it'll get, then increasing URR by 1/3 would enormously slow the post-peak decline rate, making the transition to other energy sources much easier.

Indeed, huge-but-slow resources, such as the oil sands, are great for post-peak mitigation, as they simply can't be drained dry in short order. Not only does that mean they'll produce for a long time, it means they can't make oil cheap again, and hence can't derail price-motivated efforts to switch away from it.

If we assume that we can get another 1000 Billion barrels (about half the total) at $100 that's 100 Trillion dollars.

The total value of the Worlds stock markets in 2007 was 51 Trillion or about half the in-ground value of the oil.

If we are at or near Peak Oil the value of the in-ground oil will climb remorselessly in the years ahead making the 100 Trillion a lower estimate...

Result1: we will go 'to the ends of the Earth' to get this resource out the ground.

Result2: SWFs (Sovereign Wealth Funds) of NET oil exporters are going to 'own' Wall Street...

...and can anyone tell me 'if electricity is our future' why the total market cap of the Uranium miners is just 30 Billion US??

Nick.

For the same reason water was, until recently at least, 'free'.
The only commodities valued are those in short supply.
The price of uranium has halved in the last year - with just a little exploration, vast new finds were made, enough so that even with much expanded plans for nuclear energy production it is darn near a free good.

Dave,

Do you have any sources on the Uranium story ?('scuse the lame pun).

Not that I doubt you, but Anti nuke types spent (again , 'scuse the lamer pun..) most of the last three years telling us that there wasnt enough U for the nuke plans anyway.

Here is the source of my claim that uranium prices have halved:
http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage_c_online.php?leftnm=10...

Currently, the international uranium prices have drastically reduced, almost by 50 per cent compared to last year. The spot price of the yellow cake (uranium) today is $59 per pound while last year it went up to $138 per pound.

Here is the position paper by the World Nuclear Association:
http://world-nuclear.org/info/inf75.html

Bill Hannaghen extensively lists sources and resources amongst the information here:
http://www.nuclearcoal.com/energy_facts.htm
Energy Facts

And Charles Barton deals with the issue here:
http://nucleargreen.blogspot.com/
Nuclear Green

For the EROI and a rebuttal of Storma nd Smith which has been the source of most of the rumours about uranium shortages see here:
http://nuclearinfo.net/Nuclearpower/WebHomeEnergyLifecycleOfNuclear_Power
Nuclear Power Education - Energy Lifecycle of Nuclear Power

If needs be, the basic technology of uranium from the sea has also been tested:
http://jolisfukyu.tokai-sc.jaea.go.jp/fukyu/mirai-en/2006/4_5.html
4-5 Confirming Cost Estimations of Uranium Collection from Seawater
Obviously it is not worth the bother at present uranium costs.

Finally, it is not very difficult to massively increase the efficiency of burn:

Currently nuclear reactors use about 100 to 200 tons of uranium every year. 10,000 to 20,000 kg of uranium per billion kWh. 200 to 400 times more uranium than the french msr design uses. The MSR can generate 1000 times less uranium and plutonium waste and everything else that is left over has a halflife of less than 50 years.

http://nextbigfuture.com/search/label/thorium
Scroll down to the Fuji design.

That's the spot price. The long term contract price varies. Reactors tend to be built after you have signed a thirty year contract or the equivalent. It helps with the financing if you can reassure the bondholders that you aren't going to run your reactor for only a few years and then shut down after you run out of fuel.
It also helps to have a contract to sell the electricity as well...

Fuel costs a tiny proportion of the costs of a reactor, less than 1%. Processing is a lot of that, so the raw material costs are even less.
As a percentage of total costs this will be small item.
You can also buy from France, in a deal which includes uranium, as China recently did.

Of course they expect to find oil and they will. At tomorrow's prices they should make money for awhile yet. However, it doesn't change the point made here, which is that ongoing finds are not large or plentiful enough to prevent the declines stemming from the depletion of the older and larger fields. This makes the smaller amounts found just that much more valuable.

Joe, the easy way of looking at it is to imagine that for a given amount of money spent exploring and developing, to keep it simple let's say $1million, you got an extra so many barrels of oil, say 20,000, and you sell that at $50 plus your margin.
Oil gets tougher to find, so in a couple of years for the same $1million you only get 10,000 barrels.
However, the price has doubled so you make the same!
The oil company gets just as much money, and obviously carries on looking for more oil, but the poor old customer only gets half as much oil for the same money.
So long as the oil price keeps rising, the oil companies keep looking for more oil.
This over-simplifies things, but not enough to alter the broad picture.
You get less and less oil for your money.

Thanks, Dave. Get it! You guys (and gals?) just need to keep whacking me over the head 'til this stuff sinks in.

Now for the other 6.35 billion AJ's...

Regards, Matt B

Of course they will continue looking and all Oil Majors budget for Exploration.

One or two things must be born in mind though.

A modern , deepwater hpht semi-sub or drill ship rents out at circa $500, 000 per day. Thats about 1.5 billion US per operational year.

A less modern offshore rig goes for less, but they too are in short supply.

An Exploration programm is usually 2-4 wells per year , depending upon sea depth and final drilling depth.

So, $100 Billion doesnt actually amount to a massive exploration pulse in real terms. A dollar doesnt go quite as far as it used to.

Compared with the Halcyon days of the 80's, 100 Billion is not translated into a grat deal of new exploration wells. - Admittedly, fewer wells need to be drilled because of advances in Seismics and other techniques, but 100 billion sounds like a lot but it isn't.

100 Billion US = 50 Billion Sterling = Labour's bail out of a half assed mortgage company called Northern Wreck.

The problem for Western Majors is: Where to look? If you want to spend money on exploration, you want to go where you will find an elephant, be able to develop it and not see it nationalised after you have done all the hard work. This too is a limiting factor.

Thanks Mudlogger (and thanks to others for answering my very basic questions in simple terms).

I guess it's the "scale" I'm still trying to get my mind around (like the 200,000 extra humans coming into the world each day to make up the expected 9 billion by 2050); and which of those seemingly huge numbers can be explained away, which can't.

I'm sure I'll get there eventually!

Regards, Matt from Melbourne, Australia

Joe,

Just to emphasize what the Mudlogger said about exploration costs. Last year I worked on a Deep Water well that cost $148 mm. Just one well. And not only did it not find hydrocarbons it did a good job of condeming any future drilling in the immediate area. Of course the operator was optimistic about the potential and all the new technology (very expensive technology) helps. But in general exploration success runs around 10% to 20%. But when the payoff can be huge the players will make the bets. The growing problem now is the diminishing number of places to make the bet. Besides fighting mother nature the fear of nationalization is quickly becoming a dominant factor. All the oil companies in the world now control only 15% of the production. The national oil companies (the governments) control the other 85%. As government revenue drops due to depletion they will be even more tempted to redo the trade and take more of the production stream regardless of the terms of the original concession.

This is a very good example of why you don't invest in the prospectors, but invest in those supplying the picks and shovels--they MUST be paid whether or not the prospector strikes its lode.

That chart would be less scary if our recovery % of STOOIP has been increasing dramatically to offset lower discoveries

For reference, "dramatically" means about 0.25% per year, based on the presentation you linked. (1% increase = ~63Bbbl = 2 years' consumption, and assuming discovery has been half consumption recently)

recovery has been stuck at 35% for a very long time.

The presentation you link notes that the UK fields saw an average reserves increase of 25% over the first 20 years after they were booked (slide 13). On slide 14, it says that that growth is both due to there being more oil than was originally thought and to the recovery factor increasing.

It would be interesting to see why you say recovery factor hasn't changed for a very long time, as the presentation you link to appears to suggest the opposite.

No, 'dramatically' would have to offset the 'dramatically' lower oil discoveries in my first graph, e.g. oil discoveries this decade will have dropped 90% from the 1960s.

In the one source I linked, slide 12 the BP geologist states "average global recovery factor is about 30-35%".

But here are other links. This information doesn't exist in one tidy number (much like most of peak oil related data and heuristics), partially because these numbers largely represent CURRENT fields in production and don't include ones already abandoned, and as I'm sure you are aware there is not one international clearinghouse for this sort of data - people can't even agree on reserves within a 50% ballpark.

1. http://www.slb.com/media/services/solutions/reservoir/carbonate_reservoi...
Schlumberger - "The average recovery factor—the ratio of recoverable oil to the volume of oil originally in place—for all reservoirs is about 35%."

2. http://www.eoearth.org/contributor/mamdouh.salameh
Oil expert Dr Mamdouh Salameh said that "And despite the great technological strides by the oil industry, the average global oil recovery rate has been stuck at 32% of the oil in place since the early 1990s. However, rates of 50% and even 55% have been achieved in the North Sea and also in the most recently-developed, state-of-the-art Shaybah oilfield in Saudi Arabia respectively." (Old ODAC May 7, 2007 not working to provide source for Salameh's statement)

3. http://www.bfe.admin.ch/php/modules/publikationen/stream.php?extlang=en&...
http://www.mees.com/postedarticles/oped/a46n51d01.htm
The present “worldwide” average oil recovery factor is just above 29% - Leif Meling, Statoil
(uses IHS data). Meling does think that the recovery factor can be increased to an optimistic 38% by using EOR techniques to increase URR. Eg, for Saudi Arabia he estimates max URR of 460 Gb.

4. Even optimistic ex Aramco Nansen Saleri, now leading his own consultancy
http://www.quantumreservoirimpact.com/
said at 5:35 of this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZnkjwBAW7U
that "the industry only recovers one out of three barrels" which is equal to a recovery factor of about 33%. Also, from Harper's presentation which uses IHS data, he says that original world discovered in place volumes are about 5.5-7.0 trillion barrels (Tb). Using a recovery factor of 35% gives a URR range of 1.93 Tb to 2.45 Tb. The world has produced about 1.08 Tb C&C to end of April 2008 which leaves remaining URR range of 0.85 Tb to 1.37 Tb.

For comparison, your neighbor, Colin Campbell's estimate (excluding gas liquids and rounding) is now about URR 2.20 Tb from his May 2008 newsletter.
http://www.aspo-ireland.org/contentFiles/newsletterPDFs/newsletter89_200...

TOD contributor "Ace" also discussed world average field recovery factors in section 3 of his article on Saudi Arabia's Crude Oil Reserves Propaganda

There is more but thats all I could find for you now sirrah. Perhaps if ONCE you would agree with someones comments, I might feel compelled to find 5 or 6 related sources instead of 4. If you have a source that nicely summarizes the historic global recovery ratios of OOIP, I would be grateful, as I've not seen it.

Another important point is that a lot of our remaining reserves are in existing developed fields and have been added because of dubious assumptions about recovery based on technical progress and price. They are dubious simply because these numbers are provided by the same people that also believe we have trillions of barrels left.

But more importantly because they are often in existing fields none of this oil zero nada zip is available for extraction today unless the field can be reworked to take advantage of these reserve increases. This means this oil will only be pumped at some future date and by the time we hit that date total world production rates will be much lower.

We have the same problem with conventional oil we face with unconventional the extraction rates are going to be a lot lower than what the reserve estimates indicate. We simply don't have enough manpower and time and money to rework these old fields to maintain much less enhance extraction rates to any significant degree. So even assuming we have 1 trillion barrels left does not do us a lot of good since we have to pump the first 500GB before we can get to the next 500GB since its in already fully developed reserves.

And if you break int up into increments like this its obvious that the cost and difficulty will only increase over time.

My estimate of 150GB of reserves that can be extracted within 15-20mbd of todays extraction rate is not bad this is what
people should focus on. Later we will have to deal with a world thats pumping oil at a lot lower production rate than we do today and its almost certainly a very different world. What needs to happen is focusing on how we make that transition.

Given the situation we could have already started seeing steep declines in production worldwide we need to focus on getting the governments to deal with every 1mbd drop in production in a smart manner. The news overall is not good very every country that drops subsidies another increases them or uses some other means to cushion high fuel costs. The world is already made a number of potentially deadly mistakes by not recognizing peak oil and adopting a depletion protocol. If your in North America or Europe you better consider how your going to heat your home through the next winter not worry about recovery factors.

In the one source I linked, slide 12 the BP geologist states "average global recovery factor is about 30-35%".

But he did not say that it was stuck at a fixed level, just that it was currently at that level. That is your claim, not his. In fact, he says the opposite on slide 14!

Let's look at your other references:

  1. They do not claim that recovery factor is stuck. On the contrary, they say: "Our long-term commitment to research into carbonates is enabling us to develop and introduce solutions that are improving characterization, productivity and recovery in carbonate reservoirs."
  2. Difficult to evaluate, but he does indeed say it's stuck.
  3. Says recovery factor can be increased.
  4. Does not claim that recovery factor is stuck.

So of your five references for the claim "recovery factor has been stuck...for a long time", only one actually says that, and three say either that it can be increased or that it has been increasing.

Doing some searching of my own simply bolsters this consensus. For example, Norway has seen its recovery factor increase by 20% (from 34% to 41%) since 1991. BP estimates a recovery factor of 49% for its portfolio of resources, and says it's working on increasing that.

So the evidence really does not appear to be supporting your claim that recovery factor has been stuck for a long time.

TOD contributor "Ace" also discussed world average field recovery factors

Indeed he does, but he doesn't say that they aren't increasing. That's your claim, and - other than Salameh - apparently only yours.

Perhaps if ONCE you would agree with someones comments

What is the point of posting "me too" comments?

If I have something to add, I do so.
If I see something to correct, I do so.
If I agree, I do so. I just don't feel the need to tell the world about it.

However, you're wrong. I do indeed note agreement with people, and even thank them for pointing out errors I've made. Finding a recent example of that means going all the way back to Friday.

Are you objective enough and honest enough to not only admit when you're wrong, but thank people for pointing it out? If you're not afraid, it's a fantastic way to learn.

Pitt my Elder,

Heres the deal. I spend a great deal of time on this site. Sometimes I don't see that all of our efforts have made much progress in the greater sphere at mitigating upcoming oil depletion, so I get frustrated. Today was one of those days, and I was distracted by much more unpleasant items than ducks on a pond and singled you out with an accusatory tone and for that I'm sorry. However, I must say that when I see your login pseudonym, I have come to instantly expect a criticism or a pointing out of an error, so this has obviously become a knee jerk defensive pavlovian response, especially in my own interaction with you (n>30). Don't get me wrong. This community needs 'cleaner fish'/border collie types to reign in any BS and call people on unsupportable facts - it keeps the discussions high level and credible - but there does exist a fine line between correcting and searching/heckling minor errors when the larger point of the comment is valid.

In the current example, I admit to not being an expert on historical recovery rates, though in talking to people in the field I've been led to believe rates have been roughly in the same range for a long time, with very gradual increases. The BP slideshow showed they were increasing marginally, not dramatically - which was the initial point of my comment to Euan - the drop in discoveries would NOT be that alarming if recovery rates were keeping pace. Furthermore, the discovery graph I posted includes backdated reserves that were added to initial discoveries. Ultimately, a large part of the Peak Oil story WILL be about recovery rates, as the difference between 35% and 50% recovery could be hundreds of billions of barrels and moderate global decline rates. I know Gareth Roberts at Denbury Resources is shooting for 50%+ using CO2 injection and there are other EOR techniques that offer promise as well. As is usually the case when the stakes are high, there are many claims that recovery rates will dramatically increase in the future - the problem is we can't really know recovery rates until a well/region is finally abandoned. I listed the recovery rate sources I had available not as definitive answers but as datapoints I had read and learned about.

I must say that when I see your login pseudonym, I have come to instantly expect a criticism or a pointing out of an error

I have a low tolerance for misinformation, even when it's inadvertent.

It's easy enough to avoid having me correct you, though: don't be wrong. Thanks to the web, it's pretty trivial to check your facts before posting them to the world. If someone doesn't respect their argument or their audience enough to spend three minutes checking their facts, how am I as an audience member supposed to feel about them or their argument?

A great many people here say things that they wish were true as if they were true, and that's an enormous cognitive flaw. If you believe this to be an important issue - and I suspect most people here do - then it's important to avoid faulty reasoning about it, no?

(In general, I'd far prefer not to have to correct people; the modeling and numeric discussions are much more interesting and personally informative.)

there does exist a fine line between correcting and searching/heckling minor errors when the larger point of the comment is valid.

Yet, as you say:

"the difference between 35% and 50% recovery could be hundreds of billions of barrels"

That may not be best characterized as "minor".

Moreover, let's get something straight: there were two points in my original post, and only one of them disagreed with you. Saying that recovery factor would have to increase by 0.25%/yr to make up for discovery shortfalls in no way makes those shortfalls irrelevant; indeed, 0.25%/yr increase in recovery factor strikes me as somewhat optimistic, even in the medium term. All I was doing there was putting a number to what you were saying.

The second point, however, was that your link said the opposite of what you were saying. Most people don't read links, and your word tends to carry some weight here, so I thought that difference was important to clarify. That kind of situation is how something wrong becomes "common knowledge".

Euan,

This is an excellent post. It shines because of its simplicity.

Have you sent it to Ms Millar and Gordon Brewer of BBC Scotland?

Maybe they would go home and thing again.

The email starts:

Dear Hayely,

I wrote this post especially for you. This is actually not a burden because in the too and fro of this complex energy debate it is sometimes necessary to be reminded that a simple presentation of facts is required from time to time in a manner that is hopefully accessible to all.

I actually thought Gordon Brewer did a good job. Hopefully next time they return to peak oil they will be better aware of the issues and what questions to ask.