125 comments on Saudi Arabia’s Crude Oil Reserves: Particulars or Propaganda?
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
125 comments on Saudi Arabia’s Crude Oil Reserves: Particulars or Propaganda?
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
- Thanksgiving Open Campfire Thread
- How Relocalization Worked
- How to Set Up and Run a Bicycle Repair Company
TOD:Europe
- Unique Times -- and the Future
- Peak Gold, Easier to Model than Peak Oil? - Part I
- Carbon Capture and Storage
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Friday 27th November 2009
- International Energy Agency calls 'Peak' on OECD Oil Demand
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- Early Warning
- The Energy Blog
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“This order [i.e. capitalism] is now bound to the technical and economic conditions of machine production which today determine the lives of all the individuals who are born into this mechanism, not only those directly concerned with the economic acquisition, with irresistible force. Perhaps it will so determine them until the last ton of fossilized coal is burnt.”
—Max Weber, 1905
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
First, what's your forecast?
Second, Godwin's Law has not been violated.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3665/311832
Third, your source for 9.45 mbd is a journalist - hardly credible. 9.45 mbd might have been for one day only, not the whole month. The EIA is usually optimistic. Have you read OPEC OMR June 2008?
http://www.opec.org/home/Monthly%20Oil%20Market%20Reports/2008/pdf/MR062...
Saudi prod numbers
Mar 08, 9.03 mbd
Apr 08, 8.98 mbd
May 08, 9.13 mbd
Fourth, you said "the word of the Saudis has been far more trustworthy than the word of their critics". On 28 Sep 2005, trustworthy Naimi said that "Saudi Arabia would soon add another 200 billion barrels to its current reserves of 264 billion barrels".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/oil-reserves-are-double-...
That means Naimi is saying there could be 464 billion barrels remaining. Cumulative production to end of 2003 was about 103 Gb.
Naimi is saying that total URR for Saudi Arabia will soon be 567 Gb. That's equivalent to a recovery factor of 95% based on OIIP of 600 Gb. Do you honestly think that Naimi's statements implying a recovery factor of 95% are trustworthy?
Making predictions and forecasts is not a requirement for being credible.
Being correct is a requirement for credibility when constantly making predictions.
this link is posted below but just in case you have selective reading, you can tell me which part of the graphs you don't understand:
http://omrpublic.iea.org/supply/sa_cr_ov.pdf - right click open in new window OR//
http://omrpublic.iea.org/countryresults.asp?country=Saudi%20Arabia - click on 4 year overlay
Marco.
That's got to be one of the more fanciful statements I've ever read on TOD. I visited JD's site a few times. He is so far off on so much it was a bit like trying to have a discussion with a schizophrenic. (I've worked with such people as a counselor, so have some insight.) I didn't spend much time there.
Now, how was that for using your fine example of the straw man with zero supporting evidence?
STAFF: what is with the epidemic of insulting naysayers of late?
Cheers
It's interesting you would think that someone who runs a "Peak Oil Debunked" website would have much credibility on TOD (JD runs http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/ for those who don't know).
Latest statement from JD
"But the pipers piped on why oil prices should fall
And led the world to the edge of a vast abyss"
-Matt Simmons
Or they know more about their oil in place than you do. Attacking them based on how well their statements fit your assumptions doesn't do your argument any favours.
To present an analysis that's going to be useful to external observers, you've got to be honest about where your analysis might be wrong, and this is one of those places. Instead of immediately leaping to the conclusion that any discrepancy between your model and their statements is a lie on their part, it would be much more helpful for your analysis to consider the possibility that they're not blatantly lying, that they really do have more oil than you think, and why that might be.
As it is, it sounds like you've made up your mind already, and you're just berating the Saudis for not agreeing with you.
British fields found an average of 20-25% growth in estimated reserves as they aged (slide 13), but your graph appears to not include any similar growth for Saudi fields.
It's worth noting that 580Gb + 20% = 696Gb, suggesting that the claimed Saudi increases could have come predominately from the types of known-field growth that British fields saw.
If you want to argue that Saudi fields have not seem similar reserve growth, you've got to explain what makes them so different from British (and, IIRC, American) fields, or at least show evidence that it's common for large oil provinces to show no reserve growth. As it is, you're making a huge assumption (no reserve growth) that is (a) contradicted by the statements of the owners of the fields, and (b) runs counter to available evidence about other fields. That kind of assumption is not a good basis for an argument.
Two points:
You fixate on C+C, but the rest of the world doesn't care about that number. They care about "oil supply", for which Saudi Arabia has not dipped below 10Mb/d in more than two years, while Russia has not climbed above it (EIA data, C+C+NGL).
Perhaps NGLs should be discounted by their energy content; that would be quite reasonable if we're trying to make a fair comparison. That would put Saudi production below Russia for 2007, but well above for what we've seen of 2008.
Irrelevant, really. Breathlessly comparing Saudi statements about their own oil production with Nazi propaganda makes you look like a raving nutjob to anyone who's the least bit of an "outsider", and taints everyone you're associated with.
It's utterly unhelpful.
Probably the easiest way to strengthen your argument is by removing all of your ranting about propaganda and Nazis. It serves no purpose other than making whatever you write easy to dismiss by anyone who wants to.
Well said (yikes, I thought I was harsh).