So by that logic, Iraq and Afghanistan are states of the US. We gave them weapons too.

If they were a state they would pay taxes. Israel is a very great net liability to the US.

Cool it on the rant, souperman2. For you, faith (trust) in humanity and reason may offer the best path to solutions ahead. Fair enough. Please bear in mind, however, that faith in God and the use of reason are not always estranged bedfellows. Some of the best minds in human history have been attached to very devote people. Intelligence and religious expression need not be seen as mutually exclusive.

Collectively, whether religiously minded or disengaged, we've all had a share in enjoying the benefits of the fossil fuel age. The pending fall-out from our over-indulgence and cavalier attitude towards nature could very well be severe. But how best we will be able to face that severity, even in a worse case scenario, will depend upon how well we treat one other. Our personal survival could well depend upon neighbourly values, order and decency. The best in human beings: love, gentleness, kindness, self-control, generosity, honesty, may in the end prove to be invaluable. Many people see these things as divine gifts.

Secularists, regardless of background, do not have a monopoly on virtue. Atheists can be as obdurate, narrow-minded, and zealous in their treatment of others and as blinded to wise decision-making as anyone else. It doesn't matter if you're an Osama Bin Laden, an Ian Paisley, a Stalin, or a Robespierre, the result is the same. Fanaticism can show itself in many forms and in many guises.

Meanwhile there are devote people everywhere who are keenly aware that humanity has much to answer for in its stewardship of creation.

My final thought. All the power to you as you place your hope in the faculty of reason and common sense. But to others, if faith in God will see you through this, then all the power to you too. Respect is a good first step in building and bridging those relationships that we many come to count on.

Right on, Souperman2.

Zadoc seems an excellent guy and a smart poster, but since he has asked you to cool your rant, I'll ask you not to. Thus do i refute the up and down arrows.

Human delusional thinking and ability to rationalize anything that feels good has laid waste to the planet, and this continues apace. Airing one's delusions makes them fair game for comment.

"... IMO thats what got us into this mess..." i.e. Religion.

Believe it or not souperman, If you are referring to man made religions I would agree with you to a point - secular humanism is a religion likewise - people who put their faith in men.

I do not adhear to either one however, for in truth both are very similar to one another. They both have a misguided faith in men. Yeshua (Jesus) was perhaps the most anti-religious human being to ever walk the earth. If you carefully read the accounts in the Gospels He consistantly went against the prevailing man made systems that were in place, because in reality, these systems are always at odds with the truth.Religions of every kind, be it Christian, Judaism, Islam, Buddism et. al. may start of with knoble intentions but always invariably morph into man made systems that glorify men and follow mans principals and not God's.Humanism likewise follows this axiom of history.Communism, though atheistic, was a cult based upon the personality of one individual - first Lenin, then Stalin.Shall we even mention the Nationalist Socialist movement in pre war Germany.We should not deceive ourselves into thinking that we ourselves are immune to this kind of deception.

You could say however, that I myself am in this category by putting my complete fath in Yeshua (Jesus) and what He taught.And honestly you would be correct.But as Bob Dylan once said "you gotta serve somebody."

Now the American form of Christianity is perhaps the most misguided of all, but they, in reality, are not faithful Christians, but faithful Capitalists.Again, whether it is Capitalism, Socialism, Communism or any other so called civilized order of government, they are all man made and in the end will not work in bringing true egalitarianism to the world(which is the goal God has established by bringing Yeshua into the world).Read Zbigniew Brzezinski's new book "The Choice", and this eminent statesman will bring you too the same conclusion. Unfortunately, he leaves you hanging with a fatalistic point of view concerning the future if you wish to ever see true egalitarianism.

Ones politics IS ones religion.

One thing that you will never hear on your television, or radio, or any other form of religious or secular outlets is a scripture found in the Book of Revelation chapter 12 - "...God will destroy those who destroy the earth..."
When I read these words they convict me, for I know that, realistically, I have played a part in the systematic disorder of the balance God has established in creation by my own consumerism.And no green movement of any kind - unless it means going back to the horse and plow (producing, not consuming) - will ever work.

There is only one way "...Do unto others as you would have them do unto you..."

"...earn your bread by the sweat of YOUR brow..."

If everyone lived by these rules, the world would be a much better place wouldn't you say?

God is very fair with mankind, and He will provide a way out for individuals who seek the truth.To find the answer, however, you have to read the Bible for yourself. No one can seek God and truth for you but you yourself.