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237 comments on Asking one of the less comfortable questions about our energy future...

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Datamunger on July 10, 2008 - 11:28am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Westexas wrote:

. If we take the higher end number, which is below what some sources have cited, and look the EIA 2005 annual total liquids rate of 85 mbpd, we need about 5 mbpd of new total liquids production every year, to maintain constant production.

Small point but it is in fact an error to apply an estimated decline rate to "all liquids". Instead, it refers narrowly to conventional crude oil.

And that's the way it's used in reports from the IEA, for instance. The reason behind this is that oil sands, natural gas plant liquids production, biofuels etc. have very different output constraints from conventional crude.

For example see page 23:

http://www.iea.org/textbase/speech/2008/eagles_mtomr2008.pdf

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westexas on July 10, 2008 - 11:33am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

And natural gas plants get their gas from what source? ExxonMobil was talking about a 4% to 6% decline rate in oil and gas wells worldwide. So, it would be more accurate to say that is is the production decline from conventional wellbores worldwide. But unconventional production is not exactly setting the world on fire right now. Last year, both Venezuela and Canada showed declining net oil exports.

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Nowhere on July 10, 2008 - 1:34pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

When I mention peak oil, most people reply that it is overstated, and that they will just stay at home more.
They think oil only effects how much they drive.
How can we bring more awareness to the true impacts?
People think that it is a scare tactic, and do not understand what is really going to happen.

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quixotic on July 10, 2008 - 2:21pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Write lots of Letters to the Editor in your local paper. Run for office on the issue. I did both, and now the paper has me on as an ongoing columnist for "Energy & Ecology"

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team10tim on July 10, 2008 - 9:33pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Call your local representatives and ask them to send someone to the ASPO conference. People never talk your word for something that they don't want to hear. They have to go through the process themselves.

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goodmaj on July 10, 2008 - 2:46pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

One of the problems is that Environmentalists have cried WOLF way to often and the public is naturally sceptical of another 'the Sky is Falling' scenerio. They won't believe peak oil is real until a chunk of sky takes out their house.

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urbangardener on July 10, 2008 - 4:11pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

They don't know how to create a need.

Environmentalists seem exclusively focussed on climate change's impact on other species [ie saving the polar bear] or impact on foreigners [Pacific climate refugees] or impact on future people [by 2050 or 2100]. Which is too bad for them. They could have rallied a LOT more Americans to their cause by mentioning peak oil too: "oh by the way, since your food is no longer going to come in a wrapped package from out of state and there's not enough local food to go around...got a fishing rod? Oh that's right the remaining fish [outside the dead zones] have cancer.... Got orchards? Oh that's right they've been sold it off to developers....Got some good soil under your lawn? Oh that's right it was replaced with clay and chemicals.... Got back up water supply? Oh that's right it has all been going down the sewers.
...Well, don't you think we should make some changes around here so you won't starve whenever the trucks stop pulling up to the Safeway?"

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john15 on July 10, 2008 - 4:44pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

They could have rallied a LOT more Americans to their cause by mentioning peak oil too: "oh by the way, since your food is no longer going to come in a wrapped package from out of state and there's not enough local food to go around...got a fishing rod? Oh that's right the remaining fish [outside the dead zones] have cancer.... Got orchards? Oh that's right they've been sold it off to developers....Got some good soil under your lawn? Oh that's right it was replaced with clay and chemicals.... Got back up water supply? Oh that's right it has all been going down the sewers.

they would have thought the environmentalists were even more delusional if they heard that.

Got some good soil under your lawn? Oh that's right it was replaced with clay and chemicals

that's simply not true. some recent developments in the suburbs may have that problem but not all. anyway where did the soil go? it went to the store. you can just buy soil. you can compost.

Vacant Lot Becomes a Garden
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/07/vacant-lot-becomes-garden.php

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urbangardener on July 10, 2008 - 6:15pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I am in the business of converting vacant lots to gardens.
Thank goodness we do have soil sources in stores right now and we have time to learn how to compost right now. When TSHTF, it will be much harder: You won't be able to just buy soil at a store.

There is a phenomena called PEAK SOIL, a result of irresponsible treatment of our soil resources on both farms and in residential areas. You could learn from studying the concept. [But as we all know from your prior posts, you are not here to learn, you are here just to argue for Business As Usual.]

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john15 on July 10, 2008 - 6:22pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

There is a phenomena called PEAK SOIL, a result of irresponsible treatment of our soil resources on both farms and in residential areas. You could learn from studying the concept. [But as we all know from your prior posts, you are not here to learn, you are here just to argue for Business As Usual.]

1. peak soil? ok...did hubbert model that?

2. I have never ever in my life argued for BAU. not even close. BAU is ever increasing SUV sales when I've said we're moving to electric cars, conservation and et. electric cars are not BAU.

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Dennis Brumm on July 10, 2008 - 8:22pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Perhaps you can go to the store and buy some 'thinking out of the box' in a box.

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r4ndom on July 11, 2008 - 10:52am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Speaking of "In the Box" thinking.

Infinite growth is impossible, but that does not mean that infinite collapse is inevitable. Try a bit of out of the box thinking yourself. Fossil Fuels enable BAU, but there's a whole lot of unusual ways to do business.

Come up with one new idea to do something you depend on with no FF input. Or dig up an old way to do it. Not every improvement in technology since 1850 requires oil, coal, or natural gas. That's 150 years of new ideas.

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SontagC on July 15, 2008 - 4:48pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Crying Wolf - Wrong analogy.

If you remember the story, the child LIED to get attention.

Peak Oil, Climate Disruption, Species Annihilation, Acid Rain and Oceans, Ozone depletion, Pollution and Poison are not lies. Some of these topics have long lead times that present focused individuals have denied these problems and their consequences. As a rhetorical tactic they respond by citing the story of the "Boy who cried wolf". The truth is that the wolf really was there, but it was off on another hill and each time the boy cried, the wolf was closer.

Now the wolf is about to eat the sheep and the child.

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237 comments on Asking one of the less comfortable questions about our energy future...

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