Gore sets goal of 100% carbon-free electricity by 2020
Posted by Jerome a Paris on July 18, 2008 - 9:55am in The Oil Drum: Europe
Topic: Policy/Politics
Tags: al gore, original, power grid, renewable energy, wind [list all tags]
Al Gore has made a major speech in Washington this morning, setting out an ambitious goal for the USA to produce all of its electricity from carbon-free sources by 2020. I thought I'd comment on the technical feasibility of the plan, and the underlying economics of such an endeavour.

from the Department of Energy's recently published study about bringing wind power to 20% of total generation
The short answer is: while 100% is probably unrealistic, it's not unreasonable to expect to be able to get pretty close to that number (say, in the 50-90% range) in that timeframe, and it is very likely that it makes a LOT of sense economically.
Disclosure (or reminder): I am an investment banker for the energy sector. I do a lot of work with the wind sector, as the posts in my wind power series attest, but not only. Whether a pipeline or a wind farm, the job of a project financier is to ensure that the projects make sense for all interested parties (including the regulator) in the long run, and wind projects have to meet the same hurdles as other power plants or oil fields. Thus I'm supposed to remain level-headed when discussing wind projects!
Today, the USA generates roughly 4,000 TWh of electricity from close to 1,000 GW of installed capacity:

It is important to note right away that MWs of capacity and MWhs of generated electricity are by no means proportional. There is more gas-fired capacity than coal-fired capacity (440GW vs 330GW), but coal-fired plants generate two and a half times more power (2,000 TWh vs 800 TWh). It is useful to note in that respect that the capacity utilisation of non-hydro renewables are pretty close to that of the overall system (with 100 TWh generated from 26GW of capacity in 2006).
Today, a plan to be in a position to generate between 2,000 and 3,000 TWh of electricity from renewables (taking into account the 1,000 TWh per year provided by nuclear and hydro, which are expected to remain in place) will necessarily focus to a large extent on the large-scale development of wind farms, which is the only renewable technology which is already industrially tested and has a levelised generation cost in the same range as today's conventional power sources, in the single-digit cent-per-kilowatthour range. Solar is likely to play its part as well: it will keep on growing massively from its current low levels, but more effort is still required to bring its cost down from the current 20-30c/kWh range, something which is expected to happen in the next decade.

Source: McKinsey Global Institute
For the simplicity of this discussion, I will focus on wind, given that it presents a bigger challenge on the intermittency front (which the inclusion of solar can only help improve), and that it would drive the ecohnomics of such a plan given its larger scale deployment.
The main questions, of course are as follows:
1) is it technically feasible to build the requisite capacity within 12 years?
2) what will it cost, and what will it mean for power prices?
3) how can the intermittency issue be dealt with?
Technical feasibility
To get 2,000 TWh of electricity from wind, roughly 800GW of wind power capacity would be needed, considering that windfarms would get an annual production equivalent to 2,500 full hours (a pretty conservative estimate, given that the existing wind farms are closer to 3,000 hours today). 800GW is roughly equal to 30 times the currently installed capacity (which should reach about 23GW at the end of this year) and 100 times the capacity installed in 2008 (expected to be close to 8,000MW, after 5,000MW were installed in 2007).
To build 800 GW in 12 years would require a significant increase in annual installations - but actually not an unrealistic one.
The Department of Energy recently published a study about bringing wind power to 20% of total generation, which provides the following timeframe:

This is for a less ambitious plan: 300GW by 2030, so you'd roughly have to quadruple that to get to 800GW by 2020, but one might note that the DoE only expects 4GW to be built in 2008, ie less than the reality without any big plan to boost things up... A realistic target would be to have 80GW of installations, ie 10 times this year's level, within 5 years. That would give the time to ramp up production, by building factories, training workers, and ensuring that the supply chain follows suit. What would make this possible is for the industry to have the certainty that the investment are required.
What has hampered the development of the industry has been the regulatory uncertainty, in particular in the US with the long saga of the timely renewal (or not) of the PTC ("production tax credit", the federal 10-year tax credit equal to 2c/kWh for power from renewable sources), which caused demand to crash and then brutally rebound from one year to the other. This caused installed capacity to collapse several times in the past few years in the US, causing mayhem in the industry worldwide:

Source: AWEA
With predictable, guaranteed demand over the next decade, the industry could step up its investments across the supply chain in order to provide the requisite number of generators. The technology is understood, it calls upon industries that are much larger than the pure wind sector (mechanical engineering and civil works, mainly) and which have a large employment pool. Access to resources is tight today, as it across all industry, but we're not talking world-changing volumes either (for instance, if you count about 50 tons of steel per MW, you'd need 4 millon tons of steel per year, ie less than a percent of total world production). And again, a strategic plan with predictable production figures and guaranteed demand would allow to lock in supplies early on in the process, providing stability (and early cahsflows) to all suppliers down the chain.
In terms of wind resources, the USA has more than enough potential to find enough sites to install such capacity with wind resources providing cost competitive production , as noted in the DoE report (which alos notes that more than 1,000GW could be connected to the existing grid at low cost):

Altogether, the plan would require boosting investment in wind production capacity to about $100-150 billion per year, a significant number but hardly one that would require a complete retooling of the US economy. With a stable regulatory framework (presumably provided if this were made a national priority) and guaranteed demand (which could come via very simple mechanisms, like a feed-in tariffs, ie mandatory purchases by local utilities at regulated rates), there is absolutely no reason to doubt that this could be done.
I'll address the requirement to boost the grid separately below.
the economics of such a plan
Wind power economics are quite simple: most of the levelised production cost per MWh comes from the initial investment. It is thus naturally sensitive to investment costs, and even more so to financing costs, both of which are determined at the time of construction. Once a windfarm is built, its production costs are essentially set for the rest of its operating life, ie 20-25 years. The fixed nature of its cost base makes it a difficult bet in a deregulated universe, where prices can swing wildy (including to low prices that can be insufficient for the windfarm to service its debt burden, thus the requirement for feed-in tariffs or similar mechanisms to guarantee a floor to wind electricity). But such fixed prices make wind a great proposition at times of increasing oil&gas costs: wind power prices will NOT increase even if oil & gas or coal prices continue to go up, as is quite possible.
Thus wind power is a wonderful hedge against future energy prices. And given that today it already costs less than power from a ges-fired plant (the plants that typically drive the price of electricity on wholesale markets), it is both competitive and likely to remain so in the coming years.
And given the cost structure of wind, a very simple way for government to support wind at very little cost would be to provide funding for the sector at low interest rates. One big advantage of government is its ability to borrow at lower rates - indeed, government sets the lowest rates that are by the rest of the economy. By passing on its low cost of funding to wind developments, the final cost of wind power could be lowered significantly, and passed on to consumers (banks would still be required to hold onto operational and other risks linked to wind production, they would just get cheaper funding for that specific purpose, which the'd have to fully pass on to projects. Germany has successfully used such a mechanism for years).
Studies in Germany and Denmark show that wind power lowers wholesale prices by 30 to 70% when wind blows, and that the overall savings for consumers far outstrip the cost of guaranteeing to wind producers a regulated tariff. Ironically, the more wind power there is in the system, and the lower the wholesale marker price will be most of the time, which means that the regulated tariff remains a necessity to ensure that wind producers are able to pay off the debt linked to their initial investment. But that regulated tariff is known, is realtively low, and,again, will not need to increase over time, thus ensuring to consumers similarly stable retail prices.
If anything, wind is likely to stabilise prices, or even bring them down whatever the prices of oil, natural gas or coal. Also, as the DoE report notes, beyond the potential benefits of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, switching to wind would have massive advantages in terms of lower water use for the power sector.
The DoE study concluded that the cost of strengthening the grid would be around $20 billion in today's dollars. Given the larger scale of the Gore plan compared to the DoE plan, a cost of $100 billion for grid reinforcement seems a reasonable estimate, which would represent less than 5% of the total investment programme,and thus have a similarly minor impact on ultimate production costs.
Dealing with intermittency
Of course, the big question with such an ambitious plan is how to deal with the intrinsic intermittency of wind power, which may not be available when electricity is actually needed. Given that power is almost impossible to store (except where hydro is available on a large scale, and pending potential progress on batteries), this is a very real issue.
But there are actually several answers to that:
- one is that, provided that the network is able to shift electricity around, you can rely on the fact that the USA has several independent wind regimes, and thus that there will almost always be wind somewhere that can be carried around. Obviously, this does mean a serious effort to reinforce the network, and to connect the now mostly separate regional grids, but that's precisely where the federal government could have a decisive say within such a plan, and push a reinforcement and development of the grid on a coordinated national basis. As a good example coming from a territory which is much smaller than the USA, (but which also has at least 3 independent wind regions) I note that the French grid operator, RTE, long extremely wary of wind power and its unreliability, had this to say in its latest annual report (big PDF, in French, see p.49):
The second point is about wind's contribution to peak demand: despite wind's intermittency, wind farms reduce the need in thermal power plants to ensure the requisite level of supply security. One can speak of substituted capacity.
The capacity substitution rate (ratio of thermal capacity replaced to installed wind capacity) is close to the average capacity factor of wind farms in winter (around 30%) for a small proportion of wind in the system (a few GW). It goes down as that proportion increases, but remains above 20% with around 15GW of wind power.Similarly, the UK network operator put up a report that noted that the expected intermittency of the national wind portfolio would not appear to pose a technical ceiling on the amount of wind generation that may be accommodated and adequately managed. The DoE, in its own study, hasidentified the improvements that would be require to the network to absorb more wind power and be able to use it around the country:
;

- the second answer is that spare capacity will be needed occasionally, and that this is actually not a big deal. As noted at the beginning of this post, gas-fired capacity is already used at much lower overall rates than coal-fired plants. They can be kept in place. With 440GW of gas-fired capacity, and taking into account the oil-based, nuclear and hydro capacity, demand can be assured at pretty much any point in the demand curve even without wind. The important thing to note is that keeping that capacity in place does not mean using it. MWH substitution does not require MW substitution to the same extent:
Carbon emissions come from using the capacity, not from keeping it available. Using that capacity every now and then will generate some emissions, but that will only represent a small fraction of today's emissions, especially supposing that it is coal-fired capacity that is eliminated thanks to the arrival of wind and solar. And as many gas-fire plants are already geared, to a large extent, to be used only for fractions of the time, their economics will easily tolerate such use. It should also be noted that the production profile of solar and of offshore wind matches electricity demand a lot better than onshore wind, so their development (which I ma voluntarily ignoring here) will further help in that respect;
from the UK study linked to above - the third answer is that there are a number of small changes to electricity consumption patterns that can be used to reduce the requirement for peak capacity. Industry has long agreed to sign interruptible contracts, benefitting from lower prices for power in exchange for the right by the utilities or the network to cut them off at short notice; a lot of our power consumption is not time sensitive and could thus also be made to switch off in times of need. And this is an area where government could easily play a role, by mandating standards for all electricity consuming equipment, making them able to "talk" to the network and indicate their status (not interruptible, interruptible at identified times, interruptible at will).
Overall, network operators with actual wind experience seem confident that a combination of additional investment, smart grid management, and maintaining available (but not using much) a large gas-fired capacity can make it possible to cope with large amounts of wind power in the system.
While a goal of 100% of carbon-free electricity is probably unrealistic, it therefore seems possible to get pretty close to that, especially if nuclear and hydro are included in the mix. A plan that announced a specific goal of 40-50% of wind-generated electricity by 2020 and 10-20% of solar, with the appropriate feed-in mechanisms, demand guarantees for manufacturers and investment in the grid would therefore be realistic, make economic sense, and fulfill two major strategic goals: reduce carbon emissions, and lower fossil fuel demand.



Gore's speech is on youtube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt9wZloG97U
The css is gone again----
Ah yes, dynamic sites really suffer, but there is no other way to do it.
Good post and I am all in for wind, but then again I am from Denmark where 20% of electricy is generated by wind.
Robert
I just watched it. Damn, Al Gore should run for President one day... oh, uh, nevermind...
Hmm, and imagine the world today if his victory had been recognised, and the resources and energy of the United States had been directed to efforts such as these instead of wars around the world...
It's worth mentioning that Gore was the one who watered the Kyoto Protocol down for the sake of the US, then helped make sure the US didn't even sign the thing. Had he got in with the 2000 election, he might not have been the same man he is today. We might have avoided the two invasions, but crash programmes for wind farms we would not see.
After politics, he's had a swing towards liberalism, compassion and care for the environment. It's this strange Former Statesman Syndrome, happens a lot, dunno why.
They're outside of the system that doesn't care for such non-standard thinking. That frees them up a lot to talk about things they otherwise wouldn't. As long as you're involved in politics, especially at the national level, you're in something akin to corporate culture that is not all that flexible.
It's not worth mentioning. Gore was VP at the time and VPs are told what to say and do. You do the man an injustice.
He chose to be VP. And it's not as if there haven't been deputy leaders who expressed opinions contrary to their main people from time to time.
I think it should be called PPC Syndrome. Post-Power Conscience Syndrome.
Please tell us who the VPs were of the U.S. who expressed contrary opinions.
What about one Dick Chaney?
You should include in this syndrome the fact that Gore was very active on environmental issues before becoming VP. Saw this happen a number of times during the Vietnam War. Some of us against the war would be cheered when a person who seemed to know what was going on moved from outside the power circle to within it. But very soon that person would echo the party line. Then when the person left the power circle they would revert to their previous position. That is my memory of it but I can't dredge up specifics. Speaking of dredging up memories, on TOD there has been mention of Pres. Carter being accurate about our energy situation. But IIRC what he got congressional approval for was heavily weighted towards oil shale. The compromises made!
Yeah, completely accurate to the point of scaremongering everyone to believe we would reach peak oil in the mid-80s. What a flop!
Flop???
Forget about the spurious topic of global warming for one moment.
Watch this video and tell me exactly where M King Hubbert was wrong and why you think President Carter was pulling our chain?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImV1voi41YY
If you listen carefully he stated that the peak of conventional crude production would occur in 1995, BUT HOLD ON ONE SECOND PLEASE: Because "...It appears OPEC was curtailing their production - that would push the peak back by 10 years..."
That was not a lucky guess, and infact, it was a calculation based on hard data that turned out to be correct to the exact year.
The peak of conventional crude did infact occur in the year 2005.
Correct me if I'm wrong but 10 years added to 1995 would put us at the year 2005. Right?
Do not confuse NGL's with Conventional oil.
Again I say - CONVENTIONAL CRUDE peaked GLOBALLY in 2005.
Hubbert made that calculation in 1976 at the beginning of Carters term as President.
I do not ever recall a speach by Carter in which he stated we would reach the peak of oil extraction globally in the mid 80's.
However, M K Hubbert was spot on with his calculations and gave us invaluable information on the crisis that was occurring.
There may be a plethora of answers to the crisis - and not everyone will agree on exactly what should be done to alleviate this unprecedented threat to civilization - but the warning was clearly given.
It should be quite obvious to most that President Carter was well aware of the global energy situation by having access to data that is not readily available to the general public; and he was well aware of the work of M King Hubbert.
Mr. Carter was absolutely correct in stating we were in a crisis as early as the 70's.
But of course, in the financial world, 'Cassandra' will always be the whipping boy and Reaganomics came along to save the day. - Until now.
Forgive my crudity.....Cassandra is about to kick the financial world's ass.
It's also worth mentioning that Gore was warning us about global warming before the vast majority of people had a clue what it was. Gore was not the President, so I don't think his watering down the protocol had anything to do with his true feelings; it was a function of Clintonian political calculation.
He did not have a swing towards liberalism or care for the environment; he was just freed up to say and do anything he damn well pleased. I see nothing strange about this, especially as one who has been in the government and understands the constraints.
WHAT? I mean, I am no Al Gore fan, but to simply state lies like that is no help at all. Much before he was VP he did talk about the ozone layer and the Global Warming issue. Kyoto wasn't signed because Congress didn't allowed it, despite Gore's efforts into signing it.
I mean, how can you even come to get history completely backwards? It's not even funny. Research a little more before regurgitating trash.
It's not backwards at all. It's exactly as I said: he negotiated for the US, got it watered down to be the most piss-weak treaty imaginable, and then it didn't get passed in the US anyway.
This is not correct. Gore was very active on renewable energy in the late 1970s as a member of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Science and Technology. I worked for another Congressman who was on the same committee.--Tom Gray, American Wind Energy Association, www.awea.org, www.20percentwind.org
Thanks for sharing.
WOW! Just watched the speech. I wish we had an AlGore in Switzerland.
I wish America had an Al Gore in office.....
The Truth About Crude Oil
First Crude Oil is NOT from Dino the Dinosaur or his brothers. Logically speaking if the earth was covered with a dense primeval forest and there was a Dinosaur living in every five square mile area on the face of the earth, and all this was compressed into a sub surface space for tens of thousands of years, and produced a pool of Crude Oil, it WOULD ONLY FEED the needs of this world for the PAST twenty years, so WHAT FUELED the Industrial Age for the first EIGHTY YEARS???????????????????????????
Think about what is stated above! Science states that oil is the by product of the earths ENGINE as it rotates creating GRAVITY and super heating rock formations, that through this process release oil and this oil flows into cavities within the earth.
Now with this said, what is the reason for the excessive spike in Crude and Natural Gas prices? GREED.
In the 60’s gas sold for 35 cents a gallon, cars got 5 to 7 MPG so a 100 mile trip would take some 16 gallons at a cost of 5 dollars. Today cars get 30 miles to a gallon and that same trip would only take 3 gallons of gas at a cost of 12 dollars. Take into account the LOSS OF VALUE of the FRN and you will see that BIG OIL is KEEPING ITS bottom line HIGH as the efficiency of the engines increase.
There was a contrived oil crisis in the 70’s and there is one today. Why? It is the GREED of BIG OIL! It takes less than 20 dollars to get oil out of the ground and refined into its product and delivered. It takes from 6 months to a year for a well from the day the drill head starts the hole until it produce oil. The Russians can do it in three mounts. Today’s wells exceed 6000 barrels a day, and one off shore platform can have over 20 SLANT WELL HEADS producing oil 24 hours a day.
The United States of America is sitting on the worlds largest coal reserves; it also has more crude oil than the Middle East. Recent finds in Montana exceed what is found in Saudi Arabia, and Pennsylvania has over 3 trillion cubic feet of Natural Gas yet to be pumped into the system. Alaska has extensive reserves yet CONGRESS has for years REFUSED to allow the release of this oil, because of RED TAPE and that they are under the control of ENVIRONMENTALIST groups. These groups want all Americans to ride bikes and live as the settlers did in the 1800. Congress continues to LIE regarding the time it takes to drill a well and get the oil into the system. They state that it would be ten years before wells drilled today could produce oil. This is a BOLD FACE LIE. Congress has prohibited drilling for the past two decades, if what they say is true and if they allowed drilling decades ago we would NOT HAVE FOUR DOLLAR A GALLON GAS PRICES, and HOME HEATING OIL WOULD NOT BE OVER FOUR DOLLARS A GALLON, THAT WILL CAUSE A HEATING CRISIS THIS WINTER, and SOME AMERICAN MAY FREEZE TO DEATH FOR LACK OF HEAT. CONGRESS IS TO BLAME IF THIS OCCURS.
Today’s advances in drilling insure a protected environment. The WILD CAT wells of the early 1900 are a thing of the past.
Environmentalist claim that the exhaust of power plants create TONS of CO2, HOWEVER, CO2 is a GAS and is measured in cubic feet NOT TONS. The advance scrubbing of the exhausts prevent most hydrocarbons from being suspended in the atmosphere. Most ALL the reasons given by environmentalist are not science, but an agenda to deprive Americans of their standard of living.
For MORE INFORMATION of the Truth About Big Oil visit
http://www.ilm-efx.5u.com/photo4.html
You Will Be Amazed, and make sure you click on the link GLOBAL WARMING and read what the ENVIRONMENTALIST do not want you to know about NON GLOBAL WARMING BY MAN.
I expect as the oil crisis worsens there will be a lot more disinformation such as this posting (above) to distract the gullible with these blatantly erroneous figures.
The key question for the Peak Oil aware is how to mount a serious outreach effort to counter this sort of nonsense. The internet makes it very easy for this sort of psychological manipulation to spread very easy - who among the Peak Oil awareness efforts is gearing up for a major publicity effort to spread accurate information and the range of options that we face on the downslope?
Discussions among the choir are good, but they don't have much impact on the rest of society.
With renewables having an EROEI of between 5 and 12 so lets be generous and say its 10..
I figure that we would use 33.333 terrawatts of energy to install this capacity each and every year - this is I believe 29 million barrels of gasoline - as this is only a little over two weeks of fuel for the US MILITARY then its a great deal in energy terms.
On a war economy footing it could be easily done...
You mean Terajoules, I hope.
The renewables mentioned by Gore: wind and solar have higher EROEI than that: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2008/01/eroie.html
Solar comes in around 30 these days and wind is at least 20 http://www.infra.kth.se/fms/utbildning/lca/projects%202006/Group%2007%20(Wind%20turbine).pdf
This is not a big worry.
Chris
Chris, check out:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25703283/
33,000 solar panels going atop warehouse - Green Machines- msnbc.com
The cheapest so far, I believe.
David,
Thanks. I commented where you linked it below. I'd add that CSP might get lower than $0.20/kWh if the financing is done right. Gore has made the most important point in his speech:
We see this with FirstSolar right now. They aren't dependent on silicon so they have not been facing a shortage in supply. As they scale up, things get cheaper for them. Gore mentioned also that contract prices for silicon are beginning to fall now too. I expect about $10/kg in 2011 or 2012 in some deals.
This is why I keep on telling you that the UK will eventually have a lot of solar. It is going to be your cheapest form of generation. Not yet though. For now, concentrate on wind which can scale to meet your needs quickly enough. It is doubtful if anything else can if you gas supply is iffy.
Chris
Chris,
I don't think so:
http://www.withouthotair.com/
Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air (withouthotair.com)
I looked at the executive summary and it looks like your guy is blowing hot air.
http://www.bwea.com/offshore/info.html
Your guy says wind can only power a third while those who should know say there is nine times that much available. Basically, you don't have scaling problems with wind.
Chris
That withouthehotair document is some pretty strange reasoning. The guy keeps hammering on watt per area. If that's the decisive metric, then food production becomes the real bottleneck, not energy.
There are some nice thought experiments, but much of the rest is propaganda.
Under 20 cents (USD) is easy if you have standard utility power finance. IPP and PPA 30 year guarantee in a good location can get under 13 cents levelized cost for a 3000 per kWe plant. Depends on debt/equity though.
I've often wondered what would happen if all new housing was mandated to have solar panels on the roof & feed back into the electrical pool during the day?
A benefit of solar or wind power is that there isn't really a central point of failure. Rather than one point of failure (nuke plant), you have thousands of wind turbines...one fails, it's not big deal. And electricity could return to being produced more locally & regionally.
And if we took this route and went to hydrogen cars feasibly powered by renewable power, I suspect we'd push Peak Oil back by 100 years.
The question would be how to build enough housing that's affordable to service-sector workers in desirable areas - that is, in the areas where the rich live who generate many of the service-sector jobs. There are already many areas of the US where building an affordable house at prevailing working-class wages requires subsidies. If you added a solar-roof mandate, that would be either more subsidies to raise somewhere, or else doom the lower-income to live even father away from anyplace desirable - and then with peak oil how will they commute?
The single point failure mode for wind power is the same for nuke and coal. When the power line goes down, the television goes dark. It's much easier to lose a power line than a generating plant. Of course, it's much easier to repair a power line than a generating plant.
Short term power loss, there isn't much difference. Long term power loss makes wind and gas/hydro more reliable than coal or nuke.
Wind power does get points for no cooling requirements.
Dry cooling is easy. Just costs maybe 10-20 percent more per kWh. With new carbon foam and composites radiators this should be reduced to less than 10% cost penalty, especially if there's a substantial value placed on water.
Thermal powerplants near the sea can use cold ocean water for cooling. That means no fresh water cooling. With a diffusor pipe system there's very little thermal pollution either.
To put dry cooling in context, South Africa has lots of coal and not a lot of water. So we have built the world's largest dry cooled stations, each with 6 large coal PF units (Kendal @ 4,000 MW, Matimba @ 3,800 MW and Majuba @ 1,850 MW - it is half wet cooled) and we are now building two more dry cooled stations (Medupi @ 4,500 MW and "Bravo" @ 4,500 MW - not yet named but they are in construction). It reduces efficiency slightly (Majuba dry cooled units are 612MW(so) and the wet cooled units are 669MW(so) with the same boilers and turbines.
Hmm, that's better than I expected for the warm south africa climate. Dry cooling would probably incur greater efficiency penalty in the more arid western/northwestern part of South Africa. It also costs more for powerplants with lower thermal efficiency (eg saturated Rankine for nuclear LWR) as there's more waste heat to get rid of.
But it's definately worth the penalty.
Nice article.
In support of this, I'd add a useful article by Stanford's Cristina L. Archer and Mark Z. Jacobson:
Supplying Baseload Power and Reducing Transmission Requirements by Interconnecting Wind Farms, 2007.
"As more farms are connected in an array, wind correlation among sites decreases and so does the probability that all sites experience the same wind regime at the same time. The array consequently behaves more and more similarly to a single farm with steady wind speed and thus steady deliverable wind power....
It was found that an average of 33% and a maxim of 47% of yearly averaged wind power from interconnected farms can be used as reliable, baseload electric power."
Of course, charging batteries for BEV and PHEVs is a dandy use for the non-baseload power... although the US may be better off in this respect than Europe, given the geography differences.
I've heard Prof. Jacobson talk a few times and he's very sharp.
And tens of millions of micro systems tied in makes it all the more so. People ned to be careful about the future. If there is a high degree of descent, then those massive systems will break down as the individual entities responsile for them lose economic, then physical, viability.
The first, easiest, and fastest solution is to get those tebs of millions of micro systems going. (People won't build what they don't need.) You then can build what backbone you need, rather than build the micro needed to the backbone.
http://aperfectstormcometh.blogspot.com/2008/03/build-out-grid-vs-househ...
Did anybody else notice that the US map in this article showing the desired beefed-up electrical transmission system looks a heck of a lot like the map of the electrifed railroad system that Alan's post said could also include new transmission lines in the existing right-of-ways?
Sounds like an opportunity to do 2 good things simultaneously...
I realise that for the purpose of this discussion you have focused on wind however for this plan to get up wind cannot do it alone. This is often the technique that fossil fuel people use to marginalise renewables.
First and foremost in any future energy scheme is to generate negawatts. Too often we get obsessed by technology and forget the easiest and cheapest method of reducing CO2 emissions is not to have to generate the power in the first place. Here the government can play a role in setting much tighter energy efficiency standards and then helping business and households to meet them.
Second is upgrading the grid and HVDC links and storage nodes. The US grid is creaky at best and large scale renewable development on this scale would possibly be it's final death nell.
Thirdly with the upgraded grid ALL renewables solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, wave energy need to be hooked up together along with the remaining fossil fuel plants that can interact automatically with renewables like IGCC plants and gas turbines.
Finally PHEVS and BEVS need to be deployed on a wide scale with V2G capability to provide additional storage and reduce your dependance on foreign oil. Gore said that this administration has trouble with complex problems however by addressing the renewable energy problem and the oil shortage you can solve both with parts of the same solution. You need to regard transportation as part of the electricity grid.
Now all we need is for someone to break the Greenhouse Mafia's grip on Australian politics and we can see some of this here.
Aren't people still buying regular ICE cars in Australia, Canada, USA, UK, Europe, Asia, South America, everywhere? I don't even have an option of buying a hybrid where I live...
These are all good ideas and should be part of the plan. I don't think we really know what can be done. Most of the analysis that has been done to date has been by folks who have a strong prejudice toward business as usual.--Tom Gray, American Wind Energy Association, www.awea.org, www.20percentwind.org
Yeah, I know what you mean. Was delving through the IEA projections yesterday. Absurd, just an extrapolation of today's developments. If you want to have a good laugh, look at some of the older projections (80's) and see how much of it has come through. Ha!
There's no reason to trust any of their projections.
I suggest all these energy forecasting agencies to stop wasting precious time and energy with their 'projections' and start working on a set of solutions.
Ive seen sites like this....."sites where truths are told".....Sent down the memory hole.
Now I see its a hassle to get here from anywhere.
Just emagine for folks who have never been here before
and how many will miss out.
Call me paranoid all you want but, if you arent aware
then you havent been paying attention.
And paying attention is the only thing you can do
which doesnt cost you anything.....like paying for
a mistake....or paying the piper...or paying dues.
"Telling the truth when a government is spreading lies is dangerous...theres hundreds of millions of graves to prove it"
Of course if site traffic was miniscule then the
"MAN" wouldnt bother or care....its when site traffic
gets a certain momentum that you incur scrutiny.
Think Jesus Christ when he had 12 JACK KEROUAC's.
Wasnt till he took his show "On the Road" and packed
the house, then the fire marshall shows up and
closes down the show.
Of course you can believe in the "lone gunman" or
the "magic bullet" theory if it helps you sleep better.
That's perfectly natural paranoia, everyone in the Universe feels that. This does happen though, a good current example is wikileaks, a site intended for whistle blowers. I think it is hosted in the Caymon islands, and on various occasions it has effectively been shut down trough unscrupulous means by various organizations. What is usually done is that fans will mirror it to Freenet and then it will be restored from there.
You reminded me of Douglas Adams. Oh I miss that guy!
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
"So long and thanks for all the fish!"
D. Adams (These quotes appeared on my HS senior yearbook page.)
While we're at it - toodle loo Mr. Carlin too.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
G. Carlsin
the lunch time quotes is one of my favorites. You missed the most important one though:
"DON'T PANIC"
One for the Doomers...
"Drink up, the world's about to end"
Ford Prefect in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
Now to comment on the article..........
America cant even maintain its current electrical
grid system.
Power went out to 70 million Americans in 2003 I think
it was.
First thing America did was blame Canada!
Canada said...."Nope not our fault...we have power eh"
Turns out it was a cascade of sorts , started in
Ohio.
The GAO -goverment accountability office -says Americas
power grid is crumbling.
Rolling brown outs are common place.
New York city has had several black outs.
Iam not real hopefull that things get better before
they get much worse.
Cascading blackouts are common when a region lacks generation capacity. Grid issues tend to cause localized problems.
We've experienced both recently (2000 - 2001) at Brazil :(
Nephilim;
Thanks for joining the discussion.
"America cant even maintain its current electrical grid system."
There's an old saying.. 'It's not whether you fall down, but whether you get back up.' I don't deny that the grid might be inches from several collapses due to underinvestment in upgrades and maintenance, but I also don't doubt that, as with the 2003(?) Northeast Blackout, that all efforts go immediately into restoring that power. It's no way to run a sandwich shop, messy and inefficient, I'll grant you, but I'm not convinced that the grid will fall and we'll just leave it on the ground, (so to speak) and get used to cursing the darkness.
We'd jump into our legendary Hero mode, 'bucket brigades' and getting Timmy out of the Well.. to get that juice flowing again, whether broadly or locale by locale. Whether it's all just downright unsupportable or not, maybe on the 50 year timescale we'll get to see. But we're not going to let go of the electron that easy, it's just far too eclectic and supple a power source and communications medium.
Bob
"Adventure is just bad planning." —Roald Amundsen (1872—1928).
Always good to hear from VP Gore!
Obviously GW science is being ignored by the pols (though Obama came back nicely) and Gore
is giving us all some leadership.
Could renewable wind bankrupt the country? Seems unlikely as
there is no fuel to ever be purchased. But who knows..we could already be bankrupt!
As the post mentions we can forget intermittency with huge numbers of standby natural gas generators. One additional benefit would be the possibility of building large remote solar farms next to those same wind farms to provide more backup power--after all the sun rises almost every day! ;) Excess electricity could be used to make nitrogen fertilizers saving natural gas for its true role as backup fuel.
What a magnificent challenge for our country!
Good to hear, Majorian, that you think natural gas generation is an intermittency solution. I've just been thinking I'm naive talking about closed carbon cycle renewables. (Do what geology does, just faster.) Do you know if anyone has run calculations on the efficiency of such systems? With $1 per watt solar, which apparently is possible (thought not commercial) and 70% efficiency, solar and certainly wind compete quite well with nuclear?
On capital the nuke lovers would say no, that renewables can't complete. It takes 9 Kw of wind/solar to match 3 kw of thermal coal. Nuke capital costs are significantly
higher than coal, in fact nobody really knows how much more expensive as a life cycle cost because the price of both new reactors and decommisioning keeps accelerating. But then there is the continuing rise in the price of uranium and coal. If a 30 year coal plant costs $600 per Kwh and the price of coal is $50 a ton over 8000 hours per year that's $20/kw per year for capital but $200 per year for fuel: $600/30 years=$20 per year versus $50 x 8000 hr/2000 kwh/ton=$200 per year for fuel. In my view that means wind at $1000 per kw x 3 over 30 years=$100 per year, or even Stirling solar beats coal(SanDiego-project $400 million for 750 MW or $533 per KW).
I don't know any reason why natural gas generators which are emergency backup wouldn't work with wind. I know utility studies have been made that indicate that even the size of the backup can be reduced if you overbuild wind renewables. I think Jerome posted such a graph a while back.
It would be nice if financing would work that way. Hmm. I wonder if it would be possible to treat the capital cost of alternative energy as fuel costs... alternative energy would skyrocket with such financing.
What does this say about Al Gore's knowledge and interest in Peak Oil? He could have made a speech about Peak Oil, indicating that by 2020 the electric power grids in the U.S. and Europe could fail permanently. By 2020 it is doubtful that U.S. and Europe will be able to buy enough oil to maintain the highways that support the power grid, while they are using scarce oil resources for everything else. The highways in the U.S. are maintained by state governments which will be broke long before 2020 and will have extremely scarce funds with evaporated revenues for the highways from fuel taxes.
The U.S. and Europe are facing the collapse of the highways that depend on diesel trucks for maintenance of bridges, cleaning culverts to avoid road washouts, snow plowing, roadbed and surface repair. When the highways fail, so will the power grid, as highways carry the parts, transformers, steel for pylons, and high tension cables, all from far away. With the highways out, there will be no food coming in from "outside," and without the power grid virtually nothing works, including home heating, pumping of gasoline and diesel, airports, communications, and automated systems.
Matthew Simmons is apparently concerned that the decline in global oil production may be sooner that many scenarios indicate.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_...