261 comments on DrumBeat: August 3, 2008
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
261 comments on DrumBeat: August 3, 2008
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
TOD:Europe
- Unique Times -- and the Future
- Peak Gold, Easier to Model than Peak Oil? - Part I
- Carbon Capture and Storage
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Friday 27th November 2009
- International Energy Agency calls 'Peak' on OECD Oil Demand
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- Early Warning
- The Energy Blog
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“Where ideas are concerned, America can be counted on to do one of two things: take a good idea and run it completely into the ground, or take a bad idea and run it completely into the ground.”
—George Carlin
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
Many of us said the same thing 40 years ago. Obviously, no one was listening and those who were, scoffed. Those now having children despite the overwhelming evidence of a grim future, are condemning their children to that future.
I was listening. Had a vasectomy.
So your solution for something that may kill the next generation is to kill the next generation yourself ... well I guess it speeds things up.
There is no point to have an earth if you don't have good people to live on it.
I wonder about your sanity. The policy of personally not having children will not do shit. The worst people imagineable tend to have 7-8 children, then dump them on the street (they have a tendency to have a certain religion, but let's not go there). Just look at the nature of the middle east if you want to know how enviromentally friendly these idiots are.
Then again, people with ideas like this are filtered out of the gene pool, probably with good reason. So why am I fighting about this ? You will die alone, and that will be the end of it. I doubt anybody will regret that.
You didn't have children because you didn't want to do what's necessary to care for them. That's all. Don't kid yourself, and don't take others for idiots. Don't depict yourself as a hero for not doing anything. If you think dieing is the solution, then just die, and leave the rest of us alone.
Coincidentally, Strange News item one day last week: 44 year old woman has 18th child. She and her husband live in Canada, having emigrated there from Romania in 1990...
Comments from her do seem to indicate that she is utterly oblivious to the weight that she has added to the upside down population pyramid.
But if we don't have kids, who will clean up the nuclear waste?
I wonder if the down votes missed the sarcanol, or were because of it.
Boy, this topic always takes the cake, doesn't it?
My next foray into the 'Population-Thread Darkside' is the suggestion that we start to learn and relearn what wiser societies have figured out in how to maintain a healthy population with reasonable birthrates.. AND to model reasonable consumption habits.
Clearly neither of the extreme opinions, either 'Blame the Birthrate' or 'Blame the overconsumption' is enough on it's own.. and both often end up with similar degrees of Puritanical Self-loathing (and 'Other' Loathing in the same breath), an attitude which has an amazing ability to foster denial, addictive overreactions, and more division and emnity. Coming up with angry, Latin Binomials to add some kind of academic validity to how horrible we must be is a fine monument to the efforts of John Calvin, but it still paralyzes us from looking potential solutions in the eye. Instead, it leaves us darkly fantasizing about who will be the despot to orchestrate the newest 'Final Solution'..
"You" refers to Strobiusmip -- one level up. I mis-posted.
What you advocate won't work, even though it's quite true that population world-wide must be brought under control, i.e. reduced.
This will require global agreement between countries. China's early policies were directionally correct, if not always done in the best way. It can't be left to individuals to choose how many children they have anymore than conservation can be left to individual whim. You conserve, I whoop it up. No.
But the direness of the situation has to be made clear to people, arrangements made for their care in old age, the opportunity for people who love lots of children to be around them, and so on. Then they will accept, however grudgingly, necessity. But this hasn't happened in any area yet. We don't have leadership, just profiteering.
Disease, energy shortages, wars... these are the things that will cull the population. Try to tell rice farmers in southeast asia, who don't have the benefits of things like social security, pensions, health care, etc. that they can only have one child. People aren't going to do this stuff willingly. Furthermore, the earth can easily support 10-15 billion people. Of course not everybody will be able to eat meat, but I don't think that's a loss.
I wonder... 1 person = 1 acre is a common ratio bandied about, often more like 1 person = 2 acres, but I think one is doable. Under that assumption it should be true that there is enough space for all. But that implies space. It also implies planned and organized distribution. To everyone. I think it's a safe assumption that unless there is a massive and near-universal move to a sustainable paradigm, we won't be able to handle 15 billion people since the earth does not now sustainably handle 6.7 billion.